As we all know, Roblox is garbage tier gameplay structured around psychological cues to get children to fill an endless pit with fake money bought with real money.
So I banned my kid from it. He used it a little bit socially with a few friends of his. What online or local multiplayer games should I help him to replace it with? (He’s 10, so please don’t recommend Diablo 4 or anything else that has quite that much gore)
He and his friends have an Xbox Series X|S at home.
Edit: keep your judgemental shit out of here. His whole social group (5 kids he knows from school) got banned on the same day. Me and the other parents are trying to be nice and replace it with better quality games so it isn’t just a punishment.
Edit2: Thanks guys. I got him Lee Carvallo’s Putting Challenge
For everyone saying OP should let their kid play Roblox and just ban spending money… just no.
Roblox exploits child labor for profit and they have terrible scummy business practices. If you have even marginal ethical qualms about child labor and/or capitalistic exploitation of vulnerable people, you should be keeping yourself and your family away from Roblox. In your mind they should be in the same category as multilevel marketing, crypto scams and door-to-door religion peddlers.
Roblox really is the lowest of the low.
I actually think it’s fair to call them child predators. They’re exploiting kids for money instead of sexual gratification, but it’s the same power dynamic. Child exploitation is their business model.
A lot of sexual child exploitation goes down there too, so you don’t even need a roundabout definition of child abuse.
My son just turned 6 and I was thinking of looking at the game (he really likes actual Lego, and his buddies are into Minecraft and Roblox), but another parent at a bday party a few weeks back asked if we played, and then warned my that I needed to keep a close eye on it, because the suggested games algo was pushing really sketch things to his daughter.
So I started looking and decided the shopping aspect was something I didn’t want to expose him to yet. But these revelations are making me glad we haven’t yet used it and never will.
Do you have written sources for these? I’d like to educate myself but I can’t stand YouTube videos.
This guy’s video could just as well be about foss development. Nearly every point has a direct parallel.
Nobody dangles a carrot of earning money in front of potential FOSS developers. Nobody goes into FOSS thinking they’re going to get a big payout.
FOSS is not pay-to-play. There’s no equivalent to Robux for FOSS developers.
FOSS developers are consenting adults who volunteer their time for freely distributed software projects, not kids creating content for a video game company that charges them for access and then makes a profit from their work.
This guy’s argument would literally be that Mario maker is encouraging child labor because it doesn’t pay kids who make levels in it.
Roblox sells the idea that you can actually make money with it, it has its own economy with job hunting and salaries. Mario Maker is just a community game.
That’s an entirely different thing, because Mario Maker doesn’t lure anyone with the bait of financial gain.
That’s horrible. These 10 year olds are learning programming and game design skills for nothing. Good thing THAT was nipped in the bud.
This is addressed directly in the linked videos. Development for Roblox doesn’t translate outside of Roblox.
Nearly everyone knows a bunch of skills “for nothing” or, worse, for fun! Gasp! Shocking, isn’t it?
Also, did you know that modding is a thing at least since the 90s? You know, people that made modifications to games without expecting any financial return or job opportunities? People must be crazy if they’re putting so much effort just to have fun and share it, amirite?
I couldn’t stop myself from being sarcastic there, sorry. The utter cynicism struck me so hard I didn’t know where to begin explaining how wrongheaded I think people are being about that. I would for sure prefer Roblox not encourage mtx so much but sheesh man. I don’t think Timmy is trying to make the next Genshin Impact.
Intent makes a big difference. The value of Roblox as a platform and as a business is based on the work done by children to develop for it, and it was set up that way on purpose. They created an incentive model to encourage it.
Nintendo’s value as a company is not based on kids creating Mario Maker levels, nor does Nintendo push kids to do so with the promise of earning money.
it would be if the word literally meant figuratively or mario maker psychologically tortured children into spending cash for the privilege
Considering the newest Mario game got a shitload of ideas from Mario maker levels, anyone who was good at mario making enough to be creative with the formula had their labor stolen as RnD for Wonder
Terraria, for something crafty-buildy with combat and very cartoony/2d blood and gore. 1-8 players.
Don’t Starve Together, survival crafting in a hand-drawn Tim Burton-esque style. 2-6 players.
Awesomenauts, 3v3 fast paced competitive game in the style of Saturday morning cartoons. 3-6 players.
Deep Rock Galactic, coop shooter where you play space dwarves and shoot bugs while doing missions together. Gore may be a bit strong for your liking, but it’s very stylized and only against bugs and robots. 1-4 players.
Risk of Rain 2, shooter where you try and escape a planet together with lots of different ways to play. 1-4 players.
Age of Empires 2, old school fast-paced medieval strategy game modernized with new graphics and such. 1-8 players.
Valheim, viking survival crafty buildy game in which you explore and conquer a dangerous world together. 1-10 players.
Cassette Beasts, technically not multi-player yet but they’re adding it as a free update January. It’s a Pokémon-esque game where you’ll all be trainers in the same overworld together capturing beasts and taking down challenges together. 1-8 players when it comes out.
All of these games are rated T for teen, but it sounds more like you’re opposed to M rated violence and language than T levels. They’re all also insular in that this friend group doesn’t need to involve other people to play together and can either play with or against each other or the computer.
Some really solid recommendations here. Thanks a ton. I’ve heard of Deep Rock Galactic but it didn’t pop into mind. And Risk of Rain 2 looks great.
DRG does have a touch of profanity if you’re concerned about that, btw.
I just want to avoid the porn games on steam, and any super-gory shit like dead space. I thought Diablo would be fun for him but it is a bit too much right now. It was different when super pixelated back in the D2 days.
Overcooked can make for some fun chaos, though it tops at 4 players. Team Fortress 2 could work, but it does have graphic violence and I dunno if it’s available for the newer xboxes. On PC, it has loads of mods and custom maps that offer similar experiences to what you can find in Roblox
I mean, if that’s your only concern then DRG should be fine.
Deep Rock Galactic has mtx packs but they’re cosmetic, and there’s a large selection of cosmetics that you can unlock within the game itself.
Risk of Rain 2 has one proper expansion, with another on its way, and no mtx.
I think there is a mod to allow more than 4 players in a session for Risk of Rain 2
The OP said that the friend group has Xboxes, and I assume that you can’t mod the games. I may be wrong though, I haven’t used an Xbox since the 360 and mostly game with the pc myself.
You’re right, I missed that part. I highly doubt it would be moddable though
Self hosted Minecraft server for socializing. Mod the shit out of it
Factorio if you want your kid to have a severe addiction.
Red Alert 2 because I want the world to play it.
Ace Combat because it’s hype and plays well with a controller.
Bloons tower defense
I’m putting up a minecraft server for my kid and her friends, but I don’t really play myself other than than. Few creative builds so I’m curious if you could please expand for me what exactly you mean when you say to mod the shit out of it. Is it enough to create rules or am I going to have to actively moderate their play?
Mod as in install mods that modify the game. My favorite is the map and waypoint mod that adds basically Google maps to Minecraft.
Or the Create mod.
I’d also install the automatic world backup mod so if someone ever griefs the server you can just roll it back
Factorio teaches programming?
I’m a professional programmer and factorio scratches the same itch as designing systems.
It teaches you about constraints, modular design, pub sub architectures, input output flow, etc.
Not really. It will feel like programming if you already know how to program, but I don’t think it will teach you programming anymore than any other problem solving activity.
You can learn to create logic circuits in order to aid automation
Minecraft / Terraria, 100%. Both games have available co-op, so they can play with their friends, and allow quite a bit of creative expression. Terraria is made by some of the best indie devs ever, if it helps, having been getting free updates for years, even though the devs said they had finished the game years ago.
For a more socially open experience, I could also recommend Sea of Thieves. It’s a game about manning a pirateship and collecting loot, where you can sometimes run into real people on their own adventures (or get your ship sunk by them, after all, they’re also pirates). There is co-op, too. A cash shop is available, but all items are strictly cosmetic, with many items available through gameplay alone.
Yeah I love Terraria. I’ll see if I can get his friends interested in it too. Heck I’ll buy them all copies for xmas.
Terraria for the win, way more fun than Minecraft with more motivation for exploration and of course the combat.
I wonder if they still do that “friends pack” deal where you get 4 licenses for not much more than 1?
You could try Dungeons and dragons. It could be fun for his friend group.
I wish someone had taught my friends and me how to play D&D when I was 10, but my parents were part of the “satanic panic” generation, and had zero interest in anything to do with fantasy or improv. Once you get out of highschool, finding a night that everyone can meet up for D&D gets exponentially harder, let alone finding someone who wants to put in the time to DM.
This!
My friend group would have thrived from something like that.
But our parents were always afraid of what we’d get up to in this very non-conceptual way, so instead we stayed close to home. And drank.
Let’s be real, D&D is a gateway drug to alcohol. And lots of doritos 🤭.
DnD is fantastic. I was planning to buy some campaign materials for xmas. Might as well get that started!
Oh yeah, DnD is a great idea, and if they aren’t into dragons (but who isn’t) there’s all kinds of variations of rpg games. Mutant Year Zero, Vaesen, Alien, Pathfinder, Starfinder, etc. The list goes on and on. And since you have mentioned you have a pc, you can use a virtual tabletop like Fantasy Grounds, for them to play where you don’t have to get them all together in the same room. I play a few different games each week with people I have only met in game. You could buy the FG Ultimate license for one pc, whomever is going to be the DM, and all the other kids could connect with the free beta license, and only the DM needs to own the books. Everyone else can just get on and read the manuals, or play the game with no expense.
Personally I have played dnd with those virtual tabletops and… they’re pretty bad. You spend about 3x as much time fiddling with it than you do playing. Plus you then get distracted by electronics when you should be getting into your character.
Well I guess it all depends on the dm and the material. I play a couple of games each week, and one is a 4 hour session and it’s pretty immersive. We have a few hiccups now and again, but it’s not anything that bad in my opinion. There is some work on the dm side, but since we are all spread about the planet, it allows us to get together and run a campaign. Even my local board game peeps use FG to play. We talk about playing local, but when we get together it’s usually to break out some board games we have and want to play, and one person playing our dnd game is a couple of states away. We joke about putting him on an ipad and facetiming him with his head sitting on the table. LOL.
Dnd (and tabletop gaming in general) is really fun, but I can foresee problems when you try to replace the electronic gambling skinner box of Roblox with a game where the core features are math and imagination.
I’d say the main hangup with any tabletop game is availability. My family is already planning to do dnd sessions at home.
If you plan to DM:
For immersiveness, I recommend miniatures to use on a grid (can be just paper with 1”x1” squares drawn with a pencil). One thing I can say for doing it cheap and quick is to buy a bunch of those small game piece holders (1”x1”) and find monster art online to print, cut, and put in the holders as your minis.
[For example](LLMSIX 24 Pieces Game Card Stand Clear Card Holders Plastic Place Card Display Stand Photo Card Holder DIY Board Games Stand for Business Cards Price Tags Labels Menus Party Favor)
You can get basic rules online for free and you could probably pick up books used.
Yeah I’m 100% not giving WOTC money. Fuck them. I wonder how easy it is to pick up Pathfinder
I banned my kid from Roblox… what next?
I would just talk to your kid and listen to his feelings and wants. What does he enjoy about Roblox? Can he find that enjoyment with some other games? Does he understand that its not a punishment, e.g. it’s not anything that he did and that you aren’t blaming him? Sure, you can suggest a few alternatives and they might take and be fun, but you’ll need to be attuned to his feelings around what he might see as a punishment for something that he did so that he doesn’t internalize it and hurt the relationship you have with him.
yeah this should be the immediate next step. The kid shouldn’t feel punished. It shouldn’t be a “you’re not allowed because I said so.” Kids can be smart and might be able to understand why Roblox is exploitative.
At least this is a better reason to take a way a kid’s video game. My parents banned me from certain games/movies because they had positive depictions of black people.
My parents banned me from certain games/movies because they had positive depictions of black people.
Holy crap, that’s nuts. Are they KKK or something?
no, just very idiosyncratic white American racists. I don’t even know where they got it from. My grandparents weren’t racists and my parents never listened to Rush Limbaugh or anything.
Maybe they got it from fox news?
Nah, they don’t watch that either. They’re very detached and only watch football or movies with Humphrey Bogart. My best guess is they felt some kind of resentment their whole lives because they were always the poorest ones out of their siblings. All my aunts and uncles formed businesses or got moderately wealthy, whereas I grew up on the lower middle side of that spectrum. And that turned into standard American racism.
Watch professional sports where over half of the participants are not white. LMAO
Yeah and you wouldn’t believe how many slurs they scream during an average game
This is amazing advice! Saving it for when I have a kid.
Minecraft?
That’s a good one! I’m kind of hoping to give him a copy of something as a gift - but he’s already got minecraft. I want him to have options.
Terraria?
Oh that’s a good one
Also Calamity mod… it expands Terraria massively
A Minecraft realm is also a good idea, it comes with minigames maps
FTB modpacks?
Yeah they play stuff like bedwars.
Ah. So they’ve never played co-op stuff before?
Minecraft seems like the obvious choice for kids who liked Roblox. Terraria is another. If they can only play on a server that one of them hosts, then no need to worry about outside users.
Good on you and the other parents for getting that shit out of there, kids don’t need addiction machines trying to pressure them into spending money.
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On one hand it can be damaging to take away opportunities from kids, on the other hand roblox is massive groomer haven; I genuinely don’t think the kinds of connections they would make there would be worth the long term harm that may result for being involved in that shit.
Ultimately I think you did the right thing by banning it. You’re locking out like a 10th of their social life but those aren’t contacts they want.
Yeah we’re giving him and his friends alternative multiplayer games to have fun on with each other. It’s not like we’re killing his social circle - we’re just upgrading the forum.
Do you know any of the friends’ parents? Maybe you can all gather some ideas together and have a more uniform policy on what’s banned and what might be fun alternatives.
That’s 100% the plan. The robloxocalypse occured as a joint venture between myself and the other parents.
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I agree with this. Roblox is huge and often how kids of an age socialize/play. Teach them why mtx aren’t okay, and protect yourself from having to pay.
Get them into some irl stuff too. DND group, sports, book clubs, etc.
yeah java minecraft (NOT BEDROCK) is great, you can mod the shit out of it too on a pc.
You can get them both with the one license now, so you don’t have to pick. I like having the 2 options available and I don’t let my kids buy anything on the bedrock one where they have the Minecoin BS to buy stuff. They only have real money (paper) and no digital-compatible methods to pay for anything.
But the mods on Java edition are excellent, and the fact that it runs on any computer OS is a big plus. I can’t recommend anything more than Minecraft for a kids’ game.
I never understood the “Minecraft Bedrock was made so it could run everywhere” argument. Like, wasn’t Java’s moto “Write once, run everywhere”? Why settle for a garbage version of the original, when the original can run on every computational device made within the last decade?
When Java was made, nobody guessed that a phone or console would ever be as powerful as a PC. “Everywhere” really meant “Everywhere powerful enough (just PCs).”
Could MC Java be ported to a phone? Yes, but C++ is just so much more efficient for a small device.
Well, considering most android apps are written in Java (mostly Kotlin, but it uses the JVM still), I guess it could.
However, Bedrock is vastly inferior in terms of quality, and performance is not an excuse for it.
How does this work? I have a Minecraft Bedrock license for my Playstation, can I somehow get a Minecraft Java license from this too?
You should be able to see the license in your Microsoft account. I think everyone got both licenses sometime earlier this year.
Minecraft Java. Minecraft bedrock is full of microtransactions, and we both dislike those.
Minecraft Java isn’t available on Xbox, is it?
Idk, on Android you can run Pojav Launcher, but I don’t really know much about x boxes. Probably a mistake to buy such a closed ecosystem in the first place, from the little I have heard.
They are ten. They’re not going to use third party launchers
At ten I was coding basic stuff and figuring out lan networks to play multiplayer games in the early 90’s. An average 10 year old is very capable of figuring out tech stuff.
I’m sure they are. But they are not going to in order to play Minecraft with their friends.
Eh… Like I said, I was doing a bit more just to play with friends. I guess these days it would depend. If you did the install and introduced it as the method for launching the game I don’t think they’d even question it.
Why would being ten have any relation to using Pojav Launcher?
No but pc is now available on tv. The more people use it, the faster these monetization machines called this decades consoles can wither and die.
Given that you’ve got some great answers already, there seems to be very few guides on how to deal with this sort of shit as a parent.
Gaming today is very different to what we grew up with, particularly microtransactions, and I think a lot of people would be surprised at how many kids spend insane amounts of money on things like FUT packs, VBucks, etc. Much of this is down to peer pressure, so saying shit like “my kid will never pay money on microtransactions” is wishful thinking.
Kids also have different attitudes on what constitutes value to them. So while parents see robux as total ripoff, kids don’t have the experience of playing a game and receiving the whole thing and not being expected to pay real money to skip the hard parts.
Kids aren’t the only ones who waste their money on frivolous gaming transactions though. Millions of adults by battlepasses for games or we wouldn’t have that crap in games either.
Yeah that’s why I let my kid do specific chores to earn money for mtx. So he has his dripfeed to support whatever costumes or other mtx he sees - but not enough to get truly addicted. Plus I have been very forward with him that the money he spends on mtx is literally worthless the moment he buys it - so I give him normal allowance at a higher rate than his small mtx earnings. My goal is to balance it out so he can have non-standard skins and not feel made fun of for it, but also not grow psychologically dependent on them like some kids.
Minecraft is pretty good for this kind of stuff, especially Java Edition (has mods, and loooooads of servers, some of which also use mods to drastically alter the gameplay. You can also host your own, free of charge).
Yeah I prefer the java version, myself. But my kid doesn’t have a pc just yet - he’s limited to consoles and ipad for now.
If you want to get them something low level cheap, AMD small form factor pcs with integrated Radeon can be had for cheap (easily under $200 if you are patient). One of my kid plays on one of these and with a few performance mods on minecraft does 30fps just fine.
Even raspberry pi 4/5 are amazingly capable of playing minecraft 1080p. I wonder how much better linux gaming support there is on those now since the steamdeck has been a success…
minecraft, rocket league
yeah just make sure text chat is disabled in rocket league
(speaking from experience)
there’s something about those 1v1s that makes people go absolutely nuclear :’)
Grounded is the game I wish I had when I was 10. Basically “Honey I shrunk the kids” as a multiplayer survival-builder.
This one. Completely forgot about it in my other post. Only 4 player though but TONS of fun. My gaggle of girls had tons of fun with this one.
