- cross-posted to:
- pcmasterrace@lemmy.world
- cross-posted to:
- pcmasterrace@lemmy.world
Pretty damning review.
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Their issues are:
- Bad data - major errors in review videos
- Ethical concerns - conflicts of interest, Billet review, Pwnage review
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At the very least it appears incredibly reckless.
what they did to billet is goddamn evil
Evil - least sheltered redditor, just an ass
ruining a prototype product, talking shit about it, and then selling it is a lot worse than being “just an ass”
K hes hitler the evil twins
I think that their point that it’s an $800 product for a last-gen card, there really isn’t anyone out there that should buy this, and therefore it’s a bad product is valid. They could have handled the whole thing better and honestly should’ve just scrapped the video before release.
Auctioning off the prototype when the company asked for it back is pretty inexcusable. I’ll give them the benefit of the doubt that it wasn’t malicious, but they clearly have problems with internal communication of things like this are happening.
At any rate, it’s going to be a spicy WAN show this week. Linus needs to actually watch the video and address this point-by-point. If he “reads the comments” or cherry picks some of GN’s weaker arguments he’s just going to end up throwing fuel on the fire.
It’s pretty normal for water blocks to come out well after a GPUs release. Also it looks like it was a new product/company so it makes sense the design took longer than the competition.
I dont think it was malicious, but it is incredibly negligent. It puts a huge stain on the company that’s expected to honor embargos for unreleased products.
@wordle I also have the same thoughts as you.
What the fuck, that’s deplorable
This is hard to believe, it seems too comical.
I believe you of course, and without accumulating enough about Linus’ & LTT’s antics I would have doubted you. I wonder what it is that causes these kinds of things to happen. I want to say success but I think there may be something about their ethos. Not what they espouse but what they sorta believe internally.
Seemed like fair criticism to me, honestly. I enjoy watching LTT, but if they want to be a reliable source of data with “The Lab”, they can’t continue acting purely as an entertainment company.
Yeah, it was very measured and specific. You could tell he took no pleasure in doing it, the disappointment felt very genuine. It was also a classy move to avoid monetization
I mean for sure he just got a ton of viewers, but it didn’t feel like YouTuber beef or a takedown.
I think he hints at the real issue a few times when he calls them “the company”. It’s the issue why I haven’t been into Linus for a while - he talks like a capitalist now. He’s got plenty of technical opinions, but you can tell he’s not keeping up to speed on the tech (he’s always getting help from someone off screen) - instead, he’s always talking about business.
He talks about making products, the challenges, plans to expand, the sometimes hard to watch reccounts of changing relationships with his friends turned staff.
Which is still content, and I am led to believe he genuinely has a commitment to making good products and standing by them. But I’m not into that. I don’t find it interesting, and I find myself skeptical of his technical judgement and less able to identify with him
Anyone watching LTTs server videos hopes it is only for entertainment as following what they do other than for your home lab would be a disaster.
However they are building up the LAB and are selling it as serious detailed reviews… This would be a shift from their current content.
Flip side Gamers Nexus is hard core serious and I always have to skip through their videos as they put me to sleep.
To be fair, GN provides excellent Chapter selection to encourage you to skip to whatever you want to know. You don’t have to watch the whole thing if you don’t want to. I’m more annoyed by them using those idiotic clickbait thumbnails. Complete no-go for me.
Even with the chapters they yammer on in every section. They could say the same thing in half the time and their videos would STILL be long.
There’s an extension you can get that removes the clickbait thumbnails. I think this the right one. It really makes YT browsing so much better.
Yeah, but then I’d support the practice through my click. I’d rather block 90% of YT content.
Gamers Nexus makes extremely detailed videos, but after 10 Minutes of non-stop fact firework my brain just starts to fade away
Either i’m not that into tech or it is my brains fault
ya I jump to the chapter then scrub to the graphs.
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I watched LTT for Top Gear of computer hardware videos. This commentary from GN made me wonder when was the last time they did one. I couldn’t remember and unsubscribed.
I’d be interested in videos by Alex, Nicholas and maybe few others. Hope they go their own way some day. Alex videos are probably quite expensive to do so he’s probably stuck there :/
I largely stopped watching the LTT main channel after it became the All Linus Hour. I used to watch because you’d get to see more of the crew sharing things they enjoy and are passionate about. (See: Alex’s car reviews) Now it seems like all they put out on the main channel are Buzzfeed listicles with Linus squeaking about the newest color of screwdriver.
I watched LTT for Top Gear of computer hardware videos.
I think that perfectly describes LTT…if they weren’t trying to be taken as a serious facts and figures review channel.
Well he’s not exactly known for taking warranted criticism well…
LTT claims to be hitting the brakes and asking itself how to proceed: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0cTpTMl8kFY
https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1691693740254228741
This came out around the same time that was likely being filmed.
JTFC… It’s starting to seem like boycotting YouTube entirely is the only option anymore. If Google wasn’t bad enough, it feels like everyone that gets big has entire warehouses full of closets full of skeletons. And when they get exposed it rarely puts a dent in their fan base or bottom line.
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If that went down they way they said, that’s ugly af.
Of course, it’s hard to confirm any of this unless other employees want to get fired for talking about it.
3 tweets, 2 Instagram posts, and 2 TikToks minimum per day
fuck me, i gotta switch my job if that’s considered incredible
Edit:
I was told I was chunky, fat, ugly, stupid. I was called “retarded” I was called a “faggot”
Okay if there is any proof of that, it might bring down the whole company
Presumably they have to be good/generate interactions.
She was replaced by a team of 4
Also
Here’s Colin who left the company in 2022 on good terms
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Videos pull up but nothing plays. Both in firefox and chrome.
seems a nice response
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Could someone ELI5 the problem and what’s going on? (I don’t have good enough internet to watch videos ATM)
A bit more objective than the other guy: their lab testing seems to be inaccurate at times and the way they correct mistakes they spot is questionable (for example just adding a comment and pinning it on the video). Also it seems they sold /auctioned something that was not supposed to be theirs to begin with. Some prototype waterblock. Also it seems there are two different stories about the issue and the compensation for the company who owned what was sold. And up until now, the story that LTT gave out seems to be the dishonest/questionable one.
They have been misleading people for years with inaccurate test results and reviewing products when they have a conflict of interest.
LTT isn’t making sure their info is correct. They also can’t be trusted to give stuff back.
How Linus publicly responds to these very fairly laid out criticisms will really affect their standing in the tech review space going forward.
Linus generally sucks at taking warranted feedback & criticism, so I can see him crashing and burning super hard in whatever post or podcast comment he makes publicly about this.
This looks like a huge issue as far as moving from a “haha wacky video” tech channel to a “hard data driven testing” tech channel, but also it’s not like they haven’t done “serious” reviews prior to the Labs stuff in the past so I’m not about to hand wave away their issues as “growing pains” or anything like that; it’s just indicative of sloppy workflow and low effort internal culture.
My take on it:
We know that we’re not perfect. We wear our imperfection on our sleeves in the interest of ensuring that we stay accountable to you. But it’s sad and unfortunate when this transparency gets warped into a bad thing.
Yeah, well, that’s one of the main issues addressed in this video: You are not transparent about this, when you swap out videos without notice or bury corrections in a non-pinned comment.
Listing the wrong amount of cache on a table for a CPU review is sloppy, but given that our conclusions are drawn based on our testing, not the spec sheet, it doesn’t materially change the recommendation.
If the listing is wrong, who guarantees the lab tests on which the conclusion is based on are not wrong?
The thoroughness that we managed on our last handful of GPU videos is getting really incredible given the limited time we have for these embargoes.
Take the time it needs to produce correct reviews then. Who wants fast but false results?
Followup on Linus’ response from GN: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X3byz3txpso
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I watched a couple of Linus videos over the years and recently subscribed. I had no idea how many videos they push out a week - that is something they should really adress. Rather make three or four good videos a week than the absolute crap content they partially put out just to get their schedule full.
After this whole thing now I unsubscribed again. You can absolutely fuck up a situation and be good in my book if you own up to it, but Linus response is childish at best and a disaster at worse.
Linus has always been childish. Can’t stand him.
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For some great irony check out this wan show segment where linus talks about how he doesn’t like that a prototype (backpack) of theirs ended up in the hands of the public https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EwgZaSYuBLc&t=3209 Time 53:29, in case the timestamped link doesn’t work
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I forgot about this segment, thanks for bringing it up.
It was really obvious to me Linus was full of shit when he pretended to give Linux a try but then defied a scary error message warning him not to continue which he did anyway and it wiped his desktop environment completely.
He then basically implied if you couldn’t just randomly copy paste cli commands without understanding them AND ignoring a scary warning message, then Linux just was too sketchy for average users to use. It would be trivial to make that exact argument about windows… Because it’s a bullshit meaningless argument
Anyone with even the tiniest experience with a cli, imo, should’ve known at that point he’s full of shit. Fuck their shitty videos.
Yeah, it was the worst video about GNU/Linux I’ve ever seen. The whole idea was stupid from the beginning: let’s be ignorant and try to use a new operating system we don’t know anything about, spend 5 minutes on research and definitely don’t ask anybody for help.
Linus’s issue was caused by some new bug in Pop OS, but he ignored the warning message and even typed “DO AS I SAY”! But of course the conclusion had to be that GNU/Linux is not ready yet. I’m pretty sure he could have just downloaded Steam from their website instead.
The most annoying part was the response from the community. Instead of criticizing his ignorance and incompetence, people were praising him for finding a bug 🤦.
I’m with you completely. I also saw comments defending his idiocy at the CLI. Most people I know who don’t know software very well are afraid to try anything without checking somewhere for validation. But the comments were like “it’s fair because non-linux users won’t expect a command to destroy their os”. 🤦to the max.
I can easily find a command that will destroy (or royally fuck up) windows and for added evil, tell you it does something else. But yeah if it’s Linux then that would mean it’s an os only for experienced sysadmins.
He could actually still log in and use terminal (https://youtu.be/0506yDSgU7M?t=760). So couldn’t he have just reinstalled the desktop environment? :D
Well yes but his point was that an average user would need to figure it out. He demonstrated that his argument was not in good faith though
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I do kinda wonder: Pop OS told him that whatever he was doing may remove some essential stuff. Pop OS specifically said “Are you REALLY sure about that?” and didn’t let him skip the warning by pressing Y and enter.
A normie, perhaps my mom, would indeed not know what these packages mean but sure enough she would see the warning and perhaps call me to ask what this means. It takes a lot of naivety to ignore the warning.
Naivety? Nah it takes either a complete moron or someone who doesn’t care. Since he was making a video which could oppose or uphold a popular opinion, I am guessing he didn’t care…
I love this comment so much. “You crossed Linux? Now you’ve crossed me, blud.”
I don’t get what you’re referring to
More often than not, people who are passionate about something, such as Linux, take personal offense when someone says something incorrect or offensive about said thing. Oh, and blud is just to call someone a poser.
Despite how idiotic this argument sounds, but given the stupidity I have witnessed from people who are not that tech savvy, it leads me to believe that this is quite possible for them to do.
I haven’t been following LTT for more than 2 years, but as far as I remember, they were really good with the stuff they did. Got me into the whole PC building and immense knowledge on those parts.
Quite surprised to see this stuff coming out from them. Honestly, I’m disappointed with them for becoming the monster they ought to defeat.
So if your computer said “press Y to possibly brick your shit” it’s in any way reasonable to blame the computer if that happens after you press y?
People are dumb. They do so much dumb shit that your computer should be dummy proof enough to not delete the main OS itself with just a command and button press.
That’s not what happened though.
And I submit someone that stupid would toast windows in no time also.
Linus posted a response on the LTT forums:
There won’t be a big WAN Show segment about this or anything. Most of what I have to say, I’ve already said, and I’ve done so privately.
To Steve, I expressed my disappointment that he didn’t go through proper journalistic practices in creating this piece. He has my email and number (along with numerous other members of our team) and could have asked me for context that may have proven to be valuable (like the fact that we didn’t ‘sell’ the monoblock, but rather auctioned it for charity due to a miscommunication… AND the fact that while we haven’t sent payment yet, we have already agreed to compensate Billet Labs for the cost of their prototype). There are other issues, but I’ve told him that I won’t be drawn into a public sniping match over this and that I’ll be continuing to move forward in good faith as part of ‘Team Media’. When/if he’s ready to do so again I’ll be ready.
To my team (and my CEO’s team, but realistically I was at the helm for all of these errors, so I need to own it), I stressed the importance of diligence in our work because there are so many eyes on us. We are going through some growing pains - we’ve been very public about them in the interest of transparency - and it’s clear we have some work to do on internal processes and communication. We have already been doing a lot of work internally to clean up our processes, but these things take time. Rome wasn’t built in a day, but that’s no excuse for sloppiness.
Now, for my community, all I can say is the same things I always say. We know that we’re not perfect. We wear our imperfection on our sleeves in the interest of ensuring that we stay accountable to you. But it’s sad and unfortunate when this transparency gets warped into a bad thing. The Labs team is hard at work hard creating processes and tools to generate data that will benefit all consumers - a work in progress that is very much not done and that we’ve communicated needs to be treated as such. Do we have notes under some videos? Yes. Is it because we are striving for transparency/improvement? Yeah… What we’re doing hasn’t been in many years, if ever… and we would make a much larger correction if the circumstances merited it. Listing the wrong amount of cache on a table for a CPU review is sloppy, but given that our conclusions are drawn based on our testing, not the spec sheet, it doesn’t materially change the recommendation. That doesn’t mean these things don’t matter. We’ve set KPIs for our writing/labs team around accuracy, and we are continually installing new checks and balances to ensure that things continue to get better. If you haven’t seen the improvement, frankly I wonder if you’re really looking for it… The thoroughness that we managed on our last handful of GPU videos is getting really incredible given the limited time we have for these embargoes. I’m REALLY excited about what the future will hold.
With all of that said, I still disagree that the Billet Labs video (not the situation with the return, which I’ve already addressed above) is an ‘accuracy’ issue. It’s more like I just read the room wrong. We COULD have re-tested it with perfect accuracy, but to do so PROPERLY - accounting for which cases it could be installed in (none) and which radiators it would be plumbed with (again… mystery) would have been impossible… and also didn’t affect the conclusion of the video… OR SO I THOUGHT…
I wanted to evaluate it as a product, and as a product, IF it could manage to compete with the temperatures of the highest end blocks on the planet, it still wouldn’t make sense to buy… so from my point of view, re-testing it and finding out that yes, it did in fact run cooler made no difference to the conclusion, so it didn’t really make a difference.
Adam and I were talking about this today. He advocated for re-testing it regardless of how non-viable it was as a product at the time and I think he expressed really well today why it mattered. It was like making a video about a supercar. It doesn’t mater if no one watching will buy it. They just wanna see it rip. I missed that, but it wasn’t because I didn’t care about the consumer… it was because I was so focused on how this product impacted a potential buyer. Either way, clearly my bad, but my intention was never to harm Billet Labs. I specifically called out their incredible machining skills because I wanted to see them create something with a viable market for it and was hoping others would appreciate the fineness of the craftsmanship even if the product was impractical. I still hope they move forward building something else because they obviously have talent and I’ve watched countless niche water cooling vendors come and go. It’s an astonishingly unforgiving market.
Either way, I’m sorry I got the community’s priorities mixed-up on this one, and that we didn’t show the Billet in the best light. Our intention wasn’t to hurt anyone. We wanted no one to buy it (because it’s an egregious waste of money no matter what temps it runs at) and we wanted Billet to make something marketable (so they can, y’know, eat).
With all of this in mind, it saddens me how quickly the pitchforks were raised over this. It also comes across a touch hypocritical when some basic due diligence could have helped clarify much of it. I have a LONG history of meeting issues head on and I’ve never been afraid to answer questions, which lands me in hot water regularly, but helps keep me in tune with my peers and with the community. The only reason I can think of not to ask me is because my honest response might be inconvenient.
We can test that… with this post. Will the “It was a mistake (a bad one, but a mistake) and they’re taking care of it” reality manage to have the same reach? Let’s see if anyone actually wants to know what happened. I hope so, but it’s been disheartening seeing how many people were willing to jump on us here. Believe it or not, I’m a real person and so is the rest of my team. We are trying our best, and if what we were doing was easy, everyone would do it. Today sucks.
Thanks for reading this.
Did this motherfucker just respond by chiding someone else for not following “proper journalistic practices” after completely fucking burying a company without reaching out to them about their prototype product?
Oh he reached out to them, agreed to send it and their graphics card (that they didn’t use for the testing) back to them and then
soldauctioned it off.Yeah. That hit me hard was well. Dude is apparently way more unhinged than most people knew. In his rise to fame, he’s become a complete hypocrite (which also isn’t unique).
I find him only responding in the forums sketchy, like I a lot of people have an will watch gamers Nexus video and will want a response from Linus. If Linus actually wanted to clear the air why wouldn’t you do it on the wan show, he did it with the trust me bro situation. Almost nobody who watched the GM’s video will read this post and I think that’s what Linus wants, less eyes on the situation.
A couple of other things am sorry but DW guys we had a bit of a miscommunication with billet labs and sold their best prototype but we are gonna pay them back soon*tm is an awful way of handling it.
Also with the inaccuracies he doesn’t actually address the problem, they are making too many videos too quickly, no matter how many checks and balances you put in if you rush people you will get a rushed shitty product. Not to mention he doesn’t actually respond to the glaring issues of benchmarks being wrong or them trying to get the benchmarks to fit amds given ones or hell the clear conflicts of interest with noctua or Asus
He’s only responding to his fans. It’s just sad.
They are the ones that make him money, so they are what he is focused on.
I have a hunch LMG will come out with a company reply. LMG is not Linus, and Linus is not LMG, despite owning the company. You can also see in the comments how many people get this wrong, some even going on ad hominem attacks on Linus’ person.
It could be the case, that the forum post was Linus’ personal answer and the other execs stopped him from running his mouth on a live show (WAN) and dig them a deeper hole. I don’t work at LMG and I don’t know Linus personally, but if LMG would want to be “taken seriously as a company”, it should be a company statement, not a personal one.
They are doing too many videos Indeed, but what’s the solution? Doing less videos is penalized by the algorithm, which means not enough money to keep everyone around. So one solution would be to scale down, fire a bunch of people, close a bunch of channels and really focus just on LTT. To me this seems unrealistic and I doubt anyone in Linus’ position would do this.
The other option instead is to double, triple and quadruple down, hire a bunch more people, create lots of tools and know how, ways to create more data, more easily and accurately, remove lots of work from the writers and try to grow until the issues are resolved. This to me seems the only solution and is one that LMG has been pursuing for years now.
The third option is to just handwave the problem away and say they should do better without actually offering a real solution l (and I’m talking from both points of view)
Am I wrong?
They could hire more people, so the production load would be more spread out.
A few months ago there was a post on Reddit pointing out the problem with the writers being rushed from someone claiming to work at LTT. The solution the Reddit post suggested was to hire more people. Linus mentioned it on the WAN show but dismissed the post as just a whiner. (I believe the person making the post may have already been fired prior to making the post.)
If LTT was unionized there would have been an institutional path for this person to go through to get their grievances addressed. But Linus views that as some kind of personal failure. Rather than an institutional change that needs to happen to ensure the company is well run.
If that was what would be necessary, then yes, scaling down would be the correct choice, because in that case scaling up was a mistake.
Infinite growth is unsustainable, and it always falls apart in the end. Why can’t we just be happy with some slow and sustainable growth, until a sustainable plateau?
If Linus knew he wasn’t going to recommend anyone buy the waterblock no matter how it performed, but also didn’t want to show it off as a niche ‘supercar’ of waterblocks, then why agree to review it at all? Was he maybe not in the loop at all until shooting the video?
Linus posted a response on the LTT forums:
Thanks for sharing his side/comment here.
Not that I agree with his defense (seems like allot of avoidance), but I am glad I could read it.
FYI your link does not format properly on Kbin at least.
"I’m sorry…
…that you feel that way"
Kind of post.
(like the fact that we didn’t ‘sell’ the monoblock, but rather auctioned it for charity due to a miscommunication…
Steve never uses the wold ‘sold’ in his video, and uses the word ‘auctioned’ twice.
As if “sold at a charity auction” isn’t an incredibly common and normal phrase. Linus is grasping.
But he never even used the word sold, just auction/auctioning.
The one real point that I thought Linus had here was that Steve didn’t talk to him first. That part is getting a lot of ridicule, because it sounds petulant, but it’s valid–it is accepted journalistic practice to give the subject of a story a chance to comment before publishing.
Since we can now see what that comment likely would have been, it doesn’t seem to change the conclusion much. From experience I can guess at Steve’s likely response–he would have tentatively given LMG credit for compensating Billet for the loss, pending verification and comment from Billet, and ripped all the rest of Linus’s excuses a new one. But that still doesn’t change the fact that Steve didn’t quite live up to the journalistic standards that he touts on his channel.
That failure gives things a bit more of a “drama” flavor (It’s hard not to suspect that this is primarily a response motivated by that clip of Linus’s lab tech attacking GN’s and HUB’s testing methods). But of course it doesn’t absolve LMG and its vaunted lab of milking the Youtube algorithm first and being a source of real information a distant second–which was argued pretty convincingly by GN and which a lot of us started to notice long before this video came out.
Please explain why it aught to be/is standard practice to try and get a reponse before publishing.
It’s a customary practice, and I think it’s a good one because it makes the story less one-sided and can diminish the appearance of it being a hit piece if it’s negative. Bottom line, it’s natural to want to know what the person the story is about thinks of it and what their perspective is. Obviously not all journalists seek a comment from every subject, but if they do, they often mention that they asked for a comment even if they weren’t able to get one, because people want to know that they at least tried.
What could LMG have said which would change the reporting of the inaccuracies of their content? Getting a response before hand may be able to get some more information but giving corporations time to react also gives them time to act in bad faith (e.g. cover up or attempt to blackmail, etc).
Wanting to know what the person in the story things doesn’t appear to me to support sharing your criticisms before posting. Something being a custom doesn’t justify it being a custom (if it really is one).
(if it really is one).
I mean, I’m not a journalist, I’ve just been reading them for decades. It’s a thing.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/policies-and-standards/
No story is fair if it covers individuals or organizations that have not been given the opportunity to address assertions or claims about them made by others. Fairness includes diligently seeking comment and taking that comment genuinely into account.
Just as an example that came up in a quick web search–the Washington Post is a major US newspaper and this is its stated policy. Seeking comment from story subjects is an important practice in journalism, and if you consider yourself a journalist and don’t do it in a given case, you should probably have a good reason. This is why Steve felt the need to explain himself on that point.
I assumed some do it, perhaps most do and that makes it a standard.
Taking their comment into account has the potential to get more information which would prevent you reporting misinformation. I’d love to know how often their comment is useful vs how often corporations take advantage.
I filtered out ltt on yt a long time ago bc they were clickbait tech trash, like the journalistic equivalent of people magazine
This is why I feel only mildly outraged, compared to other comments here. LTT/LMG was only ever entertainment to me so gross factual errors neither surprise nor frustrate me personally. Any graphs or data presented couldn’t be trusted because they were the product of what you saw on screen, which was a buncha dorks bashing around equipment with a running gag of dropping expensive tech on the floor.
Linus justifies his frantic video production pace in terms of budget and finance. He should at least be able to reflect on the monetary harm to the small businesses that his botched reviews caused. To me, that’s what needs to be remedied ASAP because the two case studies presented (Billet and Pwnage) are not huge Nvidia corporations. Getting knocked around in the market can spell doom for everyone who works there.
This is painstakingly well thought and put out. Stuff needed to be said, and let us hope the community voices it as well.
Not sure if this gets seen by anyone from LTT, but I’m a regular consumer of their products (ie., their YT content).
I find that more and more of their videos don’t seem to end with some satisfactory conclusion, and quite a number of it is way too janky when with a little more thought and planning, could have been done and concluded much better.
Take for example the fanless heatsink dipped in ice bath video, or the car radiator water cooling video. It’s always them trying to fix some jank or scramble on camera to fight some spontaneous issues or leaks or whatever. It’s fun, yes, entertaining, yes, but utterly unsatisfactory in the end. Reminds me of a post-nut sad depression wank.
Another comparable thing is the retro emulator boxes where they play a couple games and go: “Well, it played games, it’s either fine or terrible. now check out out sponsor!!”
I still really like their server content and the home pool water cooling has been a recent cool series.
If you have seen three Stooges, that is what LTT videos are for me. No other value other than entertainment.
But after the thread by Madison it is getting difficult to support them for even that.
I really, really wish they had just done more Scrapyard Wars. Super entertaining and my girlfriend also wanted to watch it.
But it’s hard to ride a like between entertainment and actual lab-quality testing. When they tied themselves to LTT Labs, they made a choice that seems to have been beyond their capabilities, both in terms of scheduling and workforce (LTT folks saying timelines are constantly too tight) and ethics.
