Black Myth: Wukong has made history as the one of the fastest-selling video games of all time, accumulating 10 million copies sold within 3 days of launch.
Racism isn’t exactly the right word, but China and the rest of east asia have thousands of years of historical ethnic prejudices. It’s just not interpreted as “racism” because it’s more complicated than the color of your skin, and that’s typically what westerners can wrap their heads around at any given point.
Xenophobia, all of the response including the early comments of Lemmy were xenophobic leading to racist.
“How many Chinese people are playing the game to get those numbers so high”
“Of course it’s selling this much, Chinese are buying it”
“I wonder if we can trust the numbers coming out of China”
Like Chinese gamers make up huge percentage of sales and player base in general, yet this game in particular people are very concerned about the number of Chinese players.
Who cares if it’s selling well in China first, or China only, fuck off with this shit.
I’m not sure what that has to do with my rebuttal? I was confronting the claim that is now deleted, that China has never had a problem with racism.
I’m not claiming people aren’t being racist or xenophobic about this game. I was just explaining the difference between the western concept of racism and the history of ethnic conflict in east Asia.
No, you have a super secret definition of racism that doesn’t include people of similar ethnic groups not liking eachother because of past circumstances. Right?
Ethnicity is included in racism. A Korean or Chinese person who dislikes a Japanese person partially because of a cultural memory of occupation is still a racist. Even if there’s a historical justification for it, the strawman of a person you created in your head to dislike is nothing like the actual people of that ethnicity. Even if the ethnicity is close to yours. Even if you can point to examples of Chinese people doing things you don’t like currently. If you have a cultural dislike of a neighboring country, or different ethnic group, that’s still racism.
There are many regions that have vast histories of regional conflict in very small areas. It stil gets to be racist. Kurds and Armenians, everyone in Europe, Jews and Palestinians, Hondurans and Nicaraguans, the Tutsi and the Hutu in Africa.
You could point to other forms of hatred in a country, like the caste system in India (which was eventually used by the British as a census tool), as being non racist. But if it’s based in ethnicity, ESPECIALLY ETHNIC CONFLICTS, it’s racist.
Tldr, you don’t want to define yourself as racist so you created a new category that doesn’t include you.
you have a super secret definition of racism that doesn’t include people of similar ethnic groups not liking eachother because of past circumstances. Right?
Nope, just the scientifically correct version. Redefining the colloquial understanding of racism to exclude the history of racial discrimination and it’s foundation in slavery is immoral and incorrect.
It equivocates ethnic conflict such as your example of Japanese and Koreans as the same as the European racial science theory that vindicated chattle slavery based on skin tone.
A Korean or Chinese person who dislikes a Japanese person partially because of a cultural memory of occupation is still a racist.
So any conflict between two ethnic groups is automatically the same as the European slave trade…? That totally makes sense
You are conflating ethnic conflict, which can happen for a multitude of reasons with racism, which is a prejudice specific to race.
you don’t want to define yourself as racist so you created a new category that doesn’t include you.
Lol, or…you are actively preserving racial science and projecting your cultures dark history unto people whom never partook in chattel slavery because not something as idiotic as melanin content.
There are specific terminologies for everything we talked about, you just refuse to part ways with race science because it’s so inherent to your upbringing.
If you have a cultural dislike of a neighboring country, or different ethnic group, that’s still racism.
The word you’re looking for is called prejudice. Prejudice is part of racism, but so is the belief in race itself. Ethnic prejudice can be just as violent, or as damaging to social cohesion, but it’s inherently different than racism.
Do you not think Asians engaged in chattle slavery? Is that the entire crux of you argument? There was chattel slavery in Asia, there was chattel slavery based on inter Asian racism due to ethnic differences.
Prejudice isn’t separate from racism, it fits in like a puzzle piece. You don’t even have a good reason for your argument, you just don’t like the word. Bro I think you might be racist.
Do you not think Asians engaged in chattle slavery?
Well, there’s the whole problem with specifying race again. What do you mean when you say Asian? Are we talking about east Asia, the Indian subcontinent, or even south east Asia?
There was something akin to chattel slavery in India in the 1800s, but nothing as widespread or cruel as chattel slavery in the Americas. As far as east Asia, no there’s not a documented history of chattel slavery.
Chattel slavery is a very specific type of slavery that wasn’t prevalent until the 18th century.
Prejudice isn’t separate from racism, it fits in like a puzzle piece
Lol, I didn’t say it was separate. All racist are prejudice, but not all prejudice is based on racism.
you just don’t like the word.
The word is fine, it’s your understanding of the word that is flawed.
Bro I think you might be racist.
Lol, against whom?
I think you might be trying to enact a revisionist view of history that lessens the actual meaning of racism. I think you are trying to equate all ethnic conflict to the systemic chattel slavery that race science enabled in the first place, making it seem less harmful than what it was.
I think you are trying to exact a revisionist history on slavery and racism. Asians engaged in the chattel slavery you mention in the 18th century, they also engaged in just plain old slavery. There are still millions of slaves today in Asia. This is a weird argument to have with someone.
Chattel slavery was not a Western only concept, you may ask yourselves why the Asian continent is not filled with the children of black slaves. That’s because slaves that were imported to Asia were generally castrated. Used them up, let them die, get new ones, no breeding programs.
Whenever someone spends this much time trying to convince me that their feelings about other ethnic groups are not racist, because racism was invented by the West, I figure they are just trying to desperately hide their racism.
Edit: I’ll be specific for you, specially black slaves entered east Asia through the Arab corridor, the Arab states were the one’s collecting and castrating black slaves, many black slaves also made their way from European traders as well. I’ll even give you some verbiage to look up. The Kunlun slaves. There has been exploitation of indigenous dark skinned tribes for a long long time.
Asians engaged in the chattel slavery you mention in the 18th century, they also engaged in just plain old slavery.
First of all, the 18th century would be the 1700s not the 1800s as I originally stated. Secondly, the slavery that was akin to chattel slavery was introduced to India by the British when they invaded in the latter half of the 18th century.
Lastly, it’s kinda hilarious the only way you could state “Asians engaged in chattel slavery” is by utilizing terminology originating from racial science. We were talking about east Asia, not the Indian subcontinent.
Chattel slavery was not a Western only concept, you may ask yourselves why the Asian continent is not filled with the children of black slaves.
I mean that’s incorrect in so many ways… Chattel slavery was a Western concept, and African slaves never made their way to anywhere close to East Asia.
That’s because slaves that were imported to Asia were generally castrated. Used them up, let them die, get new ones, no breeding programs.
Lol, source?
Whenever someone spends this much time trying to convince me that their feelings about other ethnic groups are not racist, because racism was invented by the West, I figure they are just trying to desperately hide their racism.
Lol, whatever you have to tell yourself to make believe Europe didn’t create one of the largest crimes against humanity ever with the transatlantic slave trade.
Your pedantry is both boring and incorrect. The origin of the word involves race, but its usage extends beyond that. Language evolves. As does our scientific understanding of what constitutes race and ethnicity and its all more social construct than anything well defined.
the Wikipedia definition wrong then? You should have it edited.
Lol, depending on context yeah. If you read further into the article you’d find that it’s not a black and white subject.
“While the concepts of race and ethnicity are considered to be separate in contemporary social science”
Because westerners are so obsessed with race as an inherent truth, ethnicity and race have evolved to be similes in the English language. This is similar to how sex and gender are often used as similes, and that works in most cases, but it’s not appropriate in scientific context.
Your pedantry
It’s not pedantry when the argument is specifically about differentiating between racism and ethnic conflict.
My first statement was a rebuttal to someone claiming that racism hasn’t ever been a problem in China.
As does our scientific understanding of what constitutes race and ethnicity and its all more social construct than anything well defined.
Race is entirely a social construct, equating it to ethnicity is just wildly inaccurate and does nothing but validate the theory of racial science.
Again referring to westerners as a block without nuance, while thinking you understand nuance while westerners dont. Of course context is important. In context your comments are I’ll informed and insulting, while condescending without the understanding to have such grounds.
Yes, race is a construct, as I pointed out. Ethnicity is too, more by definition. China also has xenophobia and racism. Ask Tibet. Ask the Uighurs. Han Chinese is not the ibky Chinese. Ask Taiwan or hong Kong nationals. That’s not news to anyone.
Your reply doesnt add anything useful, so well leave it there.
Again referring to westerners as a block without nuance
Lol, first I was being pedantic and now I’m not being nuanced? Under the context of racial science, labeling it as a western ideology is correct and fairly specific. What exactly is it lacking in nuance?
Ethnicity is too, more by definition.
Ethnicity has a set definition in the social sciences. Simply calling something a social construct does not equate it to flawed social constructs like race. Unless you are claiming that things like language and culture are just as meaningless as someone’s skin color, then there are inherent differences between ethnicity and race.
China also has xenophobia and racism. Ask Tibet.
Xenophobia yes, racism no. If race has no pertinence to racism, why utilize the terminology? Why preserve the ideology of a long debunked science?
What race are the Chinese and Tibetan?
Ask Taiwan or hong Kong nationals. That’s not news to anyone.
Lol, you are getting even more wrong the more you type. People from HK and Taiwan are the same race, and ethnicity. You are now equating nationality to race…
I can tell you totally understand what youre talking about…
Do people ever listen to their own nonsense. Say this out loud for me. You really believe “ethnic prejudices =/= racism.” How would your brilliant mind classify racism? I just didn’t sell a house to those people because ethnic prejudice, I swear it wasn’t racism. Enjoy your champagne racism.
There’s a pretty clear delineation from racism and ethnic prejudice. One is a classification system used to loosely categorize people by general region and skin tone. The other is actually based on ethnic groups, and tends to actually be based on historical context.
Defined under the social construct of racism, a Han Chinese person and a Manchurian are the same “race”, they’re just Asian or “yellow”.
Ethnic prejudice is often just as bad as racism, but is generally based on actual historical context instead of a defunct “science”, that was only created to justify slavery.
Enjoy your champagne racism.
Lol, you do realize that you are the one demanding the globe to view ethnic conflict through the lens of race "science "?
There’s a pretty clear delineation from racism and ethnic prejudice. One is a classification system used to loosely categorize people by general region and skin tone. The other is actually based on ethnic groups, and tends to actually be based on historical context.
Ok but seems like a distinction without a difference. Neither racism, nor ethnic racism, have anything to do with video games.
Ok but seems like a distinction without a difference.
I mean the distinction is fairly self evident. I as an Asian person cannot hold racial prejudices against other Asians, but can have ethnic prejudices.
Neither racism, nor ethnic racism,
Man, you guys just don’t understand that race is not an actual idea people outside the west utilize. Race is exclusively a western concept used to generalize people outside of Europe.
have anything to do with video games
I didn’t say they were? I was responding to a claim that someone else made and then deleted.
Man, you guys just don’t understand that race is not an actual idea
“you guys” i’m gonna go out on a limb here and say that racists don’t actually exist on lemmy. Leftist understand that “race” was a construct used to divide people based on criteria that aren’t threatening to the status quo. In the US, race exist to make sure that people don’t question the capitalists. In China is exist to make sure people don’t question whatever the inherent power structure that existed at the time “ethnic racism” was defined.
The point is it doesn’t matter. The purpose of the division was the same and the practical division was equally spurious.
Is it so hard for you to understand that racial science was never established as an inherent truth in most of the world? That it’s only the west who utilize the word Asian to describe the majority of the world’s population.
Ethnic and religious conflict, and nationalism lead different groups into the same type of ethnic prejudices, but that is inherently different from racism within the study of social sciences.
Racism isn’t exactly the right word, but China and the rest of east asia have thousands of years of historical ethnic prejudices. It’s just not interpreted as “racism” because it’s more complicated than the color of your skin, and that’s typically what westerners can wrap their heads around at any given point.
Xenophobia, all of the response including the early comments of Lemmy were xenophobic leading to racist.
“How many Chinese people are playing the game to get those numbers so high”
“Of course it’s selling this much, Chinese are buying it”
“I wonder if we can trust the numbers coming out of China”
Like Chinese gamers make up huge percentage of sales and player base in general, yet this game in particular people are very concerned about the number of Chinese players.
Who cares if it’s selling well in China first, or China only, fuck off with this shit.
Please report those comments also, so we can remove them.
I’m not sure what that has to do with my rebuttal? I was confronting the claim that is now deleted, that China has never had a problem with racism.
I’m not claiming people aren’t being racist or xenophobic about this game. I was just explaining the difference between the western concept of racism and the history of ethnic conflict in east Asia.
No, you have a super secret definition of racism that doesn’t include people of similar ethnic groups not liking eachother because of past circumstances. Right?
Ethnicity is included in racism. A Korean or Chinese person who dislikes a Japanese person partially because of a cultural memory of occupation is still a racist. Even if there’s a historical justification for it, the strawman of a person you created in your head to dislike is nothing like the actual people of that ethnicity. Even if the ethnicity is close to yours. Even if you can point to examples of Chinese people doing things you don’t like currently. If you have a cultural dislike of a neighboring country, or different ethnic group, that’s still racism.
There are many regions that have vast histories of regional conflict in very small areas. It stil gets to be racist. Kurds and Armenians, everyone in Europe, Jews and Palestinians, Hondurans and Nicaraguans, the Tutsi and the Hutu in Africa.
You could point to other forms of hatred in a country, like the caste system in India (which was eventually used by the British as a census tool), as being non racist. But if it’s based in ethnicity, ESPECIALLY ETHNIC CONFLICTS, it’s racist.
Tldr, you don’t want to define yourself as racist so you created a new category that doesn’t include you.
Nope, just the scientifically correct version. Redefining the colloquial understanding of racism to exclude the history of racial discrimination and it’s foundation in slavery is immoral and incorrect.
It equivocates ethnic conflict such as your example of Japanese and Koreans as the same as the European racial science theory that vindicated chattle slavery based on skin tone.
So any conflict between two ethnic groups is automatically the same as the European slave trade…? That totally makes sense
You are conflating ethnic conflict, which can happen for a multitude of reasons with racism, which is a prejudice specific to race.
Lol, or…you are actively preserving racial science and projecting your cultures dark history unto people whom never partook in chattel slavery because not something as idiotic as melanin content.
There are specific terminologies for everything we talked about, you just refuse to part ways with race science because it’s so inherent to your upbringing.
The word you’re looking for is called prejudice. Prejudice is part of racism, but so is the belief in race itself. Ethnic prejudice can be just as violent, or as damaging to social cohesion, but it’s inherently different than racism.
Do you not think Asians engaged in chattle slavery? Is that the entire crux of you argument? There was chattel slavery in Asia, there was chattel slavery based on inter Asian racism due to ethnic differences.
Prejudice isn’t separate from racism, it fits in like a puzzle piece. You don’t even have a good reason for your argument, you just don’t like the word. Bro I think you might be racist.
Well, there’s the whole problem with specifying race again. What do you mean when you say Asian? Are we talking about east Asia, the Indian subcontinent, or even south east Asia?
There was something akin to chattel slavery in India in the 1800s, but nothing as widespread or cruel as chattel slavery in the Americas. As far as east Asia, no there’s not a documented history of chattel slavery.
Chattel slavery is a very specific type of slavery that wasn’t prevalent until the 18th century.
Lol, I didn’t say it was separate. All racist are prejudice, but not all prejudice is based on racism.
The word is fine, it’s your understanding of the word that is flawed.
Lol, against whom?
I think you might be trying to enact a revisionist view of history that lessens the actual meaning of racism. I think you are trying to equate all ethnic conflict to the systemic chattel slavery that race science enabled in the first place, making it seem less harmful than what it was.
I think you are trying to exact a revisionist history on slavery and racism. Asians engaged in the chattel slavery you mention in the 18th century, they also engaged in just plain old slavery. There are still millions of slaves today in Asia. This is a weird argument to have with someone.
Chattel slavery was not a Western only concept, you may ask yourselves why the Asian continent is not filled with the children of black slaves. That’s because slaves that were imported to Asia were generally castrated. Used them up, let them die, get new ones, no breeding programs.
Whenever someone spends this much time trying to convince me that their feelings about other ethnic groups are not racist, because racism was invented by the West, I figure they are just trying to desperately hide their racism.
Edit: I’ll be specific for you, specially black slaves entered east Asia through the Arab corridor, the Arab states were the one’s collecting and castrating black slaves, many black slaves also made their way from European traders as well. I’ll even give you some verbiage to look up. The Kunlun slaves. There has been exploitation of indigenous dark skinned tribes for a long long time.
First of all, the 18th century would be the 1700s not the 1800s as I originally stated. Secondly, the slavery that was akin to chattel slavery was introduced to India by the British when they invaded in the latter half of the 18th century.
Lastly, it’s kinda hilarious the only way you could state “Asians engaged in chattel slavery” is by utilizing terminology originating from racial science. We were talking about east Asia, not the Indian subcontinent.
I mean that’s incorrect in so many ways… Chattel slavery was a Western concept, and African slaves never made their way to anywhere close to East Asia.
Lol, source?
Lol, whatever you have to tell yourself to make believe Europe didn’t create one of the largest crimes against humanity ever with the transatlantic slave trade.
Irish people who still experience racism in the UK would disagree.
Irish isn’t a race of people…that’s an ethnicity, therefore they experience ethnic prejudice.
Is the Wikipedia definition wrong then? You should have it edited.
“Racism is discrimination and prejudice against people based on their race or ethnicity.” https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Racism
Your pedantry is both boring and incorrect. The origin of the word involves race, but its usage extends beyond that. Language evolves. As does our scientific understanding of what constitutes race and ethnicity and its all more social construct than anything well defined.
Lol, depending on context yeah. If you read further into the article you’d find that it’s not a black and white subject.
“While the concepts of race and ethnicity are considered to be separate in contemporary social science”
Because westerners are so obsessed with race as an inherent truth, ethnicity and race have evolved to be similes in the English language. This is similar to how sex and gender are often used as similes, and that works in most cases, but it’s not appropriate in scientific context.
It’s not pedantry when the argument is specifically about differentiating between racism and ethnic conflict.
My first statement was a rebuttal to someone claiming that racism hasn’t ever been a problem in China.
Race is entirely a social construct, equating it to ethnicity is just wildly inaccurate and does nothing but validate the theory of racial science.
Again referring to westerners as a block without nuance, while thinking you understand nuance while westerners dont. Of course context is important. In context your comments are I’ll informed and insulting, while condescending without the understanding to have such grounds.
Yes, race is a construct, as I pointed out. Ethnicity is too, more by definition. China also has xenophobia and racism. Ask Tibet. Ask the Uighurs. Han Chinese is not the ibky Chinese. Ask Taiwan or hong Kong nationals. That’s not news to anyone.
Your reply doesnt add anything useful, so well leave it there.
Lol, first I was being pedantic and now I’m not being nuanced? Under the context of racial science, labeling it as a western ideology is correct and fairly specific. What exactly is it lacking in nuance?
Ethnicity has a set definition in the social sciences. Simply calling something a social construct does not equate it to flawed social constructs like race. Unless you are claiming that things like language and culture are just as meaningless as someone’s skin color, then there are inherent differences between ethnicity and race.
Xenophobia yes, racism no. If race has no pertinence to racism, why utilize the terminology? Why preserve the ideology of a long debunked science?
What race are the Chinese and Tibetan?
Lol, you are getting even more wrong the more you type. People from HK and Taiwan are the same race, and ethnicity. You are now equating nationality to race…
I can tell you totally understand what youre talking about…
Do people ever listen to their own nonsense. Say this out loud for me. You really believe “ethnic prejudices =/= racism.” How would your brilliant mind classify racism? I just didn’t sell a house to those people because ethnic prejudice, I swear it wasn’t racism. Enjoy your champagne racism.
It doesn’t matter what you call it. What matters is that some losers got offeded that a game from a non-Western studio became successful.
Whether you call this racism or something else does not matter.
This right here, - I wonder why they removed my original comment. Lol
There’s a pretty clear delineation from racism and ethnic prejudice. One is a classification system used to loosely categorize people by general region and skin tone. The other is actually based on ethnic groups, and tends to actually be based on historical context.
Defined under the social construct of racism, a Han Chinese person and a Manchurian are the same “race”, they’re just Asian or “yellow”.
Ethnic prejudice is often just as bad as racism, but is generally based on actual historical context instead of a defunct “science”, that was only created to justify slavery.
Lol, you do realize that you are the one demanding the globe to view ethnic conflict through the lens of race "science "?
Ok but seems like a distinction without a difference. Neither racism, nor ethnic racism, have anything to do with video games.
I mean the distinction is fairly self evident. I as an Asian person cannot hold racial prejudices against other Asians, but can have ethnic prejudices.
Man, you guys just don’t understand that race is not an actual idea people outside the west utilize. Race is exclusively a western concept used to generalize people outside of Europe.
I didn’t say they were? I was responding to a claim that someone else made and then deleted.
“you guys” i’m gonna go out on a limb here and say that racists don’t actually exist on lemmy. Leftist understand that “race” was a construct used to divide people based on criteria that aren’t threatening to the status quo. In the US, race exist to make sure that people don’t question the capitalists. In China is exist to make sure people don’t question whatever the inherent power structure that existed at the time “ethnic racism” was defined.
The point is it doesn’t matter. The purpose of the division was the same and the practical division was equally spurious.
You heard him as an Asian he can’t be racist to other Asians… It’s hard for our western minds to comprehend. 😆 This fucking guy.
Is it so hard for you to understand that racial science was never established as an inherent truth in most of the world? That it’s only the west who utilize the word Asian to describe the majority of the world’s population.
Ethnic and religious conflict, and nationalism lead different groups into the same type of ethnic prejudices, but that is inherently different from racism within the study of social sciences.