“We don’t think that censorship (including through demonetizing publications) makes the problem go away.”

More than 200 Substack authors asked the platform to explain why it’s “platforming and monetizing Nazis,” and now they have an answer straight from co-founder Hamish McKenzie:

I just want to make it clear that we don’t like Nazis either—we wish no-one held those views. But some people do hold those and other extreme views. Given that, we don’t think that censorship (including through demonetizing publications) makes the problem go away—in fact, it makes it worse.

While McKenzie offers no evidence to back these ideas, this tracks with the company’s previous stance on taking a hands-off approach to moderation. In April, Substack CEO Chris Best appeared on the Decoder podcast and refused to answer moderation questions. “We’re not going to get into specific ‘would you or won’t you’ content moderation questions” over the issue of overt racism being published on the platform, Best said. McKenzie followed up later with a similar statement to the one today, saying “we don’t like or condone bigotry in any form.”

  • xkforce@lemmy.worldEnglish
    20126·
    11 months ago

    If there are 10 nazis at a table and you decide to sit among them, there are 11 nazis sitting at that table.

    • topinambour_rex@lemmy.worldEnglish
      790·
      11 months ago

      Out of curiosity, let’s say a man needs a place for sleep, and for get one, he decides to help out a nazi, for example by fixing their long distance radio, would you call this person a nazi,@xkforce@lemmy.world ?

      • Catoblepas@lemmy.blahaj.zoneEnglish
        754·
        11 months ago

        Why couldn’t the man go to a homeless shelter, or a church, or a bus stop, or a park bench, or literally anywhere other than a Nazi’s house? Also, what does a Nazi need a long distance radio for? Maybe by fixing it and not asking questions he’s helping them coordinate with other fascists to hurt and kill people. Is that worth a place to sleep for a night? Is it worth a few bucks if you’re not homeless but actually a wealthy business owner who can do as they please?

        • topinambour_rex@lemmy.worldEnglish
          540·
          11 months ago

          Why couldn’t the man go to a homeless shelter, or a church, or a bus stop, or a park bench, or literally anywhere other than a Nazi’s house? No homeless shelter, church, or a bus stop, park bench wasn’t a possibility, as there was german patrols watching the town. Also, what does a Nazi need a long distance radio for? For hear the news from Germany. Long distance radio was quite popular in the 40s. You could hear radios from the other side of a continent with those. Is that worth a place to sleep for a night? If it prevents you to get arrested by the Nazis, and questioned, I would say yes.

          The man I mention in my post is this guy As he was visiting the french riviera gathering intels for the british intelligence, he got in the situation I described in my previous post.

          • Catoblepas@lemmy.blahaj.zoneEnglish
            572·
            11 months ago

            Did you bring him up because you believe Hamish MacKenzie is doing some kind of anti-Nazi spy operations nobody else knows about? Because the contexts here are so different that they’re only tangentially related.

            • topinambour_rex@lemmy.worldEnglish
              544·
              11 months ago

              Just an example that "If there are 10 nazis at a table… " has plenty of exceptions, like Daryl Davis with kkk members.

              • Catoblepas@lemmy.blahaj.zoneEnglish
                552·
                11 months ago

                So do you want the saying to be “if there are 10 Nazis at a table and 1 person who isn’t a Nazi, then there are 11 Nazis at a table, unless the 1 person is actually an anti-Nazi spy, and then it’s okay, and also there are probably other exceptions”? Or do you think maybe that saying was obviously never intended to apply to that the first place?

                • Blooper@lemmy.worldEnglish
                  33·
                  11 months ago

                  “No no, but what if the guy is just, like, at the table because he’s Nazi- curious but kind totally didn’t kill anybody and probably wouldn’t but also the Nazis make good points about stuff so he can totally sit there, but he’s not a Nazi! See? There are exceptions!”

                  -that guy, probably

          • Flying Squid@lemmy.worldEnglish
            12·
            11 months ago

            The very occasional exception to the saying doesn’t make the saying less applicable in this particular situation.

      • xkforce@lemmy.worldEnglish
        322·
        11 months ago

        A lot of people died rather than help them so yes I would judge the shit out of someone that helps a nazi knowing full well what they are.

        • topinambour_rex@lemmy.worldEnglish
          645·
          11 months ago

          The person I mention in my previous post, is this man. As he was along the french riviera, looking for intels, he ended in this situation, that there was no vacancy in hotels, and he finally got a hotel room, by fixing the long distance radio. How do you judge the shit out of him, by curiosity ?

      • PerogiBoi@lemmy.caEnglish
        192·
        11 months ago

        Nazis don’t deserve help. They fundamentally are antisocial in their ideology. By helping them, you aid a Nazi. Why would you willingly help a Nazi?

    • 𝔇𝔦𝔬@lemy.lolEnglish
      27142·
      11 months ago

      Hearing some one out and not changing your viewpoint after the conversation, doesn’t make you one of them. 🙄

      • Tikiporch@lemmy.worldEnglish
        1113·
        11 months ago

        Thing is, we’ve heard out the nazis before. We don’t need to do that anymore.

          • NaibofTabr@infosec.pubEnglish
            372·
            11 months ago

            I like Michael Okuda’s take on this:

            The Paradox of Tolerance disappears if you look at tolerance, NOT as a moral standard, but as a social contract. If someone does not abide by the terms of the contract, they are not covered by it. In other words, the intolerant aren’t deserving of your tolerance.

            (twitter link)

            Personally, I think there’s some value in allowing the Nazis to publicly self-identify, because then we know who the Nazis are. We (society) don’t need to tolerate what they say just to prove that we’re tolerant, but it’s probably useful to know who they are, and for them to volunteer that information. Then we respond with public ridicule and name-and-shame.

            Also, that doesn’t require that a privately owned business (e.g. substack) should provide a platform for Nazi bullshit.

            • Flying Squid@lemmy.worldEnglish
              9·
              11 months ago

              Michael Okuda is one of the great contributors to design thanks to the influences of Star Trek: The Next Generation and later shows- he was behind a lot of the look- and almost no one knows who he is. It’s a real shame since, as you showed here, he’s smart in other ways too.

      • db2@lemmy.worldEnglish
        874·
        11 months ago

        There are some things not worth listening to. Not all opinions are created equal.

      • xkforce@lemmy.worldEnglish
        341·
        11 months ago

        My viewpoint is that I dont have any obligation to “hear out” a nazi. And neither does anyone else. GTFO with this “even nazis should be given a fair shake” shit.

        • winterayars@sh.itjust.worksEnglish
          3·
          11 months ago

          issuing correction on a previous post of mine, regarding the terror group ISIL. you do not, under any circumstances, 'gotta hand it to them

          -Dril

      • z00s@lemmy.worldEnglish
        262·
        11 months ago

        But hearing them out and deciding to allow them to promote their views on your website is passive endorsement.

        Or, to follow the metaphor: if you hear them out over entrees and you’re still sitting there during dessert, then you’re probably one of them.

      • z3rOR0ne@lemmy.mlEnglish
        212·
        11 months ago

        When it comes to listening to hate speech and not condoning it outrright then and there, even if you don’t explicitly support it, it does make you complicit, and it shows you’re willing to turn a blind eye to it, and that speaks negatively to your character.

        Don’t be a Nazi sympathizer, don’t let them off the hook, don’t let them spread their hate and lies. You disagree with Nazism? Then don’t give it even an inch to spread. Kill it in the cradle.