- cross-posted to:
- news@beehaw.org
- cross-posted to:
- news@beehaw.org
Donald Trump has said that Palestinians have “no alternative” but to leave Gaza due to the devastation left by Israel’s war on Hamas, in effect endorsing ethnic cleansing of the territory over the opposition of Palestinians and the neighbouring countries.
Speaking as he prepared to host Israel’s prime minister, Benjamin Netanyahu, on Tuesday, Trump repeated the suggestion that Gaza’s population should be relocated to Jordan and Egypt – something both countries have firmly rejected.
Trump claimed Palestinians would “love to leave Gaza”, telling reporters: “I would think that they would be thrilled.”
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Jesus fuck you really think it was MSM libs that opposed you here.
Anarchist, know more than you, and it was completely evident this would happen which is objectively worse. Stop the cope.
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Well, I knew this. A pragmatic anarchist who advocates for the better option. I’m anti-fascist before I’m an anti-statist. Give me liberalism any day of the week vs what’s coming. (Thx again eejit)
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It’s crazy how easy trump and his buddy netanyahu played you guys in a way that it benefited him. The American left completely splintered into subgroups that all hated each other and nobody was good enough to be an ally. If you were slightly right or even left of their firm views, your help wasn’t wanted. Just a bunch of left leaning voters slinging shit at each other and NOT voting. Meanwhile the right was unified and laughing at you guys, way to go. You shot yourself in the foot and call it a win cause you got blood on the democrats.
The same democrats you are now demanding should save you from all this shit you guys enabled.
Sincerely, a Canadian.
This is the most accurate assessment of the whole situation I’ve seen.
Why are you blaming the people for not supporting genocide? Shouldnt the focus be on the supposed progressive party that did everything to enable the fascist party winning, because they refused to stop the genocide, acknowledge the economic hardship of working class people and all the other things a progressive party should do?
The US has a fascist and a far right party. The far right party is enabling the fascist party and they are still doing it right now with voting more and more of Trumps people into elected government positions.
And if there had been more pressure on the Democrats prior to the election, they might had been forced to abandon the genocide and some of their oligarch donors. Trump couldn’t have played this, if the DNC wasn’t supporting his game at every step of the way.
First they kept lying straight about how Biden was totally fit for office, as everyone could see him blitzed out of his mind. Then they put Harris who ran on “vibes”, downplayed the economic hardship for working class people and denied any sincere discussion with people opposing the genocide. Finally they brought on the war criminal and mass murderer Cheney to really drill home the fact, that the party has no ethics and only cares about money and power. Just that they like to use soft power on their own citizens, rather than hard power. And as good joke to the end Biden talked about oligarchs but claimed there to be good billionaires vs. the bad billionaires.
Stop blaming the people. Blame and fight the oligarchy that is represented in all of the political elites and their billionaire lords.
You got played, plain and simple. Trumps friend starts a war, knowing you idiots would pull the “both sides” crap and let trump win. Great job with your anti genocide stance that has now guaranteed the destruction of Gaza.
My take is that you Americans just can’t help this entitlement you have that the entire planet belongs to you. Neither of your political parties supported your side, so your solution was to support the far worse fascist? Maybe don’t make it an election issue if neither side is on yours. Maybe don’t make another county’s wars your country’s election issues.
And who decided to deliver all the weapons to Israel between Oct. 2023 and Jan. 2025?
Biden sent over 17,000,000,000 $ worth of bombs to Israel. And that is just the material, not counting the US running surveillance and target acquisitions, the diplomatic cover etc.
If that is not enough to convince you that Biden wanted this genocide as much as Trump, then how much more would the US have had to send under Biden? Would you have changed your mind at 20,000,000,000 ? 50,000,000,000 ?
During Bidens presidency Israel murdered at least 50,000 Palestinians in Gaza, more realistically a 100,000-300,000 that cannot be accounted for anymore because Israel annihilated the health system in Gaza.
If that does not convince you, how many more Palestinians would have had to be murdered under Biden, for you to consider that Biden wanted this genocide as much as Trump?
90% of buildings in Gaza are destroyed or seriously damaged. All hospitals are either destroyed or seriously damaged. The entire water and waste-water infrastructure got systematically destroyed, most schools got destroyed, all universities got destroyed. Again all of this happened during Bidens presidency, with the full support from the US.
If that does not convince you, how much more of Gaza would have needed to be destroyed, for you to consider that Biden wanted to destroy Gaza? 110% 140%? There is only 100% that can be destroyed and Israel already managed to destroy more than 90% of all civilian infrastructure, during Bidens term.
Trump is picking off where Biden left things. But the idea that Biden somehow didnt create what Trump is working off now, cannot be based on what actually happened since October 2023 with the full support of Bidens administration.
Talk is cheap. If you didn’t vote you directly sped up genocide. This was predictable and obvious for anyone not posturing from their warm homes on social media. Perfect was the enemy of better or at least slower at the direct and tangible expense of real Palestinians. At least you can all spend your time trying to defend the move instead trying to prevent an obviously fascist government from doing it. Those likes though.
As it stands currently there is much more aid getting into Gaza and much less Palestinians are murdered than throughout all of Bidens presidency since Oct. 8 2023 until a few days before he left office.
The idea that things would be better for Palestinians under the current DNC elites and who they put into power has no empirical basis.
If you didn’t call for fighting against the Biden administration over its support for the genocide, but now call for fighting against the Trump administration over it, your reasons are not related to the genocide. You cannot accept the genocide by one administration and reject the genocide by another administration. In this case you simply do not consider the genocide an important issue.
And this is crucial to understand. In regards to the genocide in Gaza, but more generally to the US being a murderous and racist empire, the Republicans and Democrats are both pillars of maintaining this status quo. And we see again right now, that many Democrats are eager to support the Trump administration now, instead of fighting it. Because they want to maintain the empire for the oligarchs. They just fight over the flavor of oligarchy.
So the solution will not come from helping the current DNC elites maintain power. It can only come from removing all current political elites and the oligarchs who they represent.
…because of a ceasefire Biden admin spent months brokering. It’s like you all don’t realize time exists. 🤦♂️
The same ceasefire that was on the table since April and was sabotaged by Israel repeatedly with no consequences from the Biden administration. And before that there were other ceasefire initiatives, that the Biden administration did not push Israel for. Also Biden himself praised how his team worked together closely with Trumps team in making the current ceasefire (that gets violated by Israel regularly) happen.
Finally Biden and Blinken kept repeatedly lying about Hamas not wanting a ceasefire, when it was Israel sabotaging the ceasefire negotiations, while Hamas kept saying they agreed to the proposal.
You simply cannot reject all the empirical evidence and flee into some idea of the actions of Biden to be somehow better, leave alone justifiable. More than 50,000, realistically more than 100,000 murdered Palestinians and the destruction of almost all of Gaza prove the contrary.
Trump now claiming that Palestinians would need to leave Gaza, because it became unlivable, screams to ask who made it unlivable. And there is more than 17,000,000,000 $ worth of bombs, that Biden delivered to Israel to make this destruction happen, as an answer to that.
Trump is speaking the quiet parts out loud. But Biden was steadfast in making it happen. And he and Harris kept emphasizing throughout the election campaigning, that they will stand by Israel no matter what. The reality is that both the DNC and the Reps want this genocide. They want to expand the US empire for their oligarchs. They will absolutely murder everyone who stands in the way of the empire, unless they are stopped from it.
And this is not a new story. Vietnam, Iraq, Afghanistan… Palestine is just another item on the list of bipartisan murder and destruction.
So since the both sides made it inevitable you really just want it over with faster then, by helping to choose the person who will make sure it’s accomplished faster and with less compassion? You went with the one more likely to start doing the same thing on US soil? This is the choice you endorse?
Remove both sides from power, and stop thinking in the box of “we are given the choice of two evils and choose the lesser one.” No! Break the box and remove the people from power who only offer evils as choice.
If people didn’t fall over backwards to defend the Democrats and pushed for a third party instead, if there had been more protests, if there had been direct actions against arms manufacturer and other complicit companies, the US might had reevaluated its support for the genocide. And these things still need to be done. The solution does not come from either the Republicans or Democrats, who both supported and still support the genocide of Palestinians, like they both supported the mass slaughter of Iraqis and Afghanis, like they both supported the mass slaughter of Vietnamese, like they both supported the genocide of native Americans…
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A now Trump is sending our children to die in a foreign land so he can enrich himself further. Slow clap to all the “winners.”
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Rofl. Biden/Harris trying everything they could to circumvent the blockade to get supplies into Gaza. Trump literally saying he wants to expel the remaining Palestinians and take their land for himself.
You will never admit you were wrong. You will go to your deathbed self assured with yourself that you never compromised on your ideals no matter what actually happens to Gazian Palestinians.
If it wasn’t abundantly obvious to the rest of ya’ll before, these soapbox “never genocide” bad actors never gave a single shit about what happens Palestinians.
Trying everything except:
Check their comment History. They’re not here in good faith at all. Just call them out and move on, but they don’t deserve a debate on this.
What a bold lie. Biden vetoed UN votes to stop the blockade. He defended the Israeli military shooting unarmed Palestinians who approached the blockade and approved of Israel blocking the investigations of the deaths of NGO workers.
You could argue Biden was more in favor of peace than Trump is, but in practice he didn’t differ from Trump’s previous term on Israel. His record is clear.
Who do you think is paying for the blockade?
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Red flag number one, laughing about genocide.
Except applying diplomatic pressure, Except taking military assets and delivering the supplies (besides the stupid symbolic airdrops that didn’t even come close to meeting requirements and killed a bunch of people). Except stopping arming, or even threatening to stop arming, the military that was blocking those supplies - in contravention of international and US law. Except Antony Blinken literally falsifying reports to Congress about “Israel” blocking supplies, because that would legally implicate the Biden administration for continuing to arm them.
“Saying”. That’s the problem with you. All you hear is words. You don’t read bills. You don’t look at arms shipments. You don’t read the history. You look at headlines.
What did i just say?
“This genocide started under Biden, with his support, and is continuing under Trump, with his support.”
They absolutely obliterated Gaza with Biden-supplied bombs while he sat there with his hands over his eyes going, “I don’t see anything wrong!” And then after two weeks in office, Trump goes, “oh my god, it’s totally destroyed! We’d better ethnically cleanse them.” while literally sitting next to Netanyahu. And in your brilliant brain, you don’t see the plan at work here.
You are the one laughing in a message about their genocide. Look at my message. Do I sound like I’m fucking laughing?
You should be ashamed of yourself.
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Engage with honesty and integrity and compassion, or stop fucking responding to my comments.
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ROFL
Bro it isn’t worth it. I respect what you are trying to do, but Lemmy is an echo chamber on these things. You are completely right in what you are saying, but you’re wasting your time commenting here.
Clearly, if Kamala had won she would have personally resurrected every dead Palestinian and single-handedly repaired all the infrastructure. Let’s conveniently ignore that she was Vice President in an administration that circumvented Congress multiple times to deliver arms with less oversight, that (almost) every US elected official has vocally supported Israel’s actions for 70+ years, and that Kamala herself committed to nothing of substance on the topic.
Wow… this is almost every logical fallacy rolled into one comment.
Bravo!
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Honestly thank you for being here and writing this. The “but Kamala” comments are super hurtful to me because I remember how the Americans have been treating us ever since. My entire family is displaced from Palestine, had to abandon studies in Syria, Iraq back in the day, had to flee again from Kuwait, my friends and acquaintances together have lost hundreds of family members. We have lost family members and ongoing trauma from having lived under occupation. It’s unbearable and you can’t even do therapy because it’s still going on, you can’t get closure.
I don’t know a single Palestinian out there who hasn’t lost family or friends, or who has family or friends who moved abroad for good.
We’ve been suffering from ethnic cleansing, apartheid, collective gaslighting since 1948 and we’ve been facing violence and terror since even much longer. As if it would make a difference to us if the person who’s literally providing the means to annihilate us is saying nice words while doing the opposite? Trump is escalating our annihilation and we never doubted that, but the Gaza genocide alone has been going on for almost 1.5 years and there was no Trump.
Many people here really don’t seem to care about the actual people. The same way we aren’t human to Trump & the Zionists, I don’t feel human when Harris supporters use Palestinians to say “I told you so”.
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Aaaah. Now you want to work together. Imagine that! When we asked you all to help keep this from happening, we were told to take our genocide supporting asses and go fuck ourselves.
Now, you’re wanting to play nice? Naaah. I’m calm as a stone too when I tell you that if you didn’t vote, or protested with a bullshit third party loser, you did this.
And we deserve to be angry about it.
I wasn’t on Lemmy since ~late 23 until after the election. Who is “you”? It’s not me.
My specific quotes at the time looked a lot like what I just wrote. Pointing out that the power of the people is in choosing their own candidates, not being handed them by the media and party apparatuses. That the two parties are visibly cooperating on genocide and that the only meaningful course of action is for the people to overthrow them.
I’m sorry, did someone else just say this?
That not you pretending there’s a “we” here? Because again, if you voted third party, or stayed home- you are openly admitting that you know nothing about the threat we faced, about how elections actually work, and about what the word “we” means.
There is no we that I am a part of that includes you. We tried to stop this. YOU didn’t.
You didn’t try to stop shit. You watched a genocide and voted for the same people committing it, because the only thing that mattered to you was your own ass. You weaponize marginalized people to act like you’re the hero of the story, but you only care about yourself. People who care about justice and have their entire lives know damn well that the entire system needs to be replaced.
Our only chance is unity. Even if I fucking hate people like you. That’s always been the case. That’s been the only chance out of a system where even the “opposition” supports genocide for our entire lives. Whether it’s 2024, or 2028, or picking up the rubble in 2032. But you know what destroys unity? PEOPLE WHO FOLD INTO THE SYSTEM AND DESTROY OUR UNITED FRONT AGAINST OUR OPPRESSORS.
What specifically did you do to try to stop it other than rant and rave on the internet and not vote for certain people?
I didn’t vote for a single person that committed genocide, so stop with the false accusations and… answer this:
Did you stay home when the rest of us voted to stop trump? It’s a simple yes or no.
And you’ve no place to speak of unity when you stood against everyone that stood against trump.
No, it’s unity AGAINST mass murderers. Not unity SUPPORTING them. Even if there’s two of them and one of them is 5% worse!
And I can already hear it. “You only had two choices!” Then I reject your stupid fucking choices.
Rejecting reality and protesting in a fantasy world. Cute. trump thanks you for your vote.
Ahhh… okay. Good! Now we’re getting somewhere! You openly admit to…. rejecting our “stupid fucking choices,” but simultaneously demand that we all unite together under your anti-genocide banner.
Got it.
Noble effort, not too many flaws that I can see in the reasoning- genocide… absolutely is a horrid act… no question there, but… the logic in this…. “idea” only works if we were suspend enough disbelief to assume that looking at two identical candidates in all other regards and capacity.
Reality is showing you that this isn’t the case.
Because you see, your rejection of OUR “stupid fucking choice” not only opened the floodgates of FAR worse suffering in Palestine, but you also pretty much threw the the entirely of the LGB¹ and minorities under the bus along with so many other marginalized people in America,
All because of your entitlement.
I’ll even bet… that if I looked back through the year and a half or so of your existence here on lemmy… I’d find that prior to October, you had nothing at all to say about the plight of Palestine.
Yeah… you’re not “we.” We tried to stop this. You didn’t.
¹ - You might not be familiar with this new acronym. They used to be referred to as LGBTQ+ but because of the consequences of non-voters and protests voters, the “T” is not recognized as existing any more.
In your society’s made up system, that you refuse to abandon, despite the fact that its very existence threatens extinction for the human race?
You played their game, by their rules. You lost. We wanted to either play their game by OUR rules, or quit their game. That was a viable strategy, IF THE POPULATION TOOK IT. But one sane person in Nazi Germany couldn’t stop WW2. They ALL needed to be aware.
Because none of Trump’s executive orders personally affect you or anyone you love. Must be nice.
Unfortunately it’s not that way for everyone. Many of us are trying to figure out how to survive the next four years without dying to a preventive illness or ending up in a concentration camp, so I’m not sorry if us “freaking out” offends you.
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No, because I have decades of trauma that you people are just beginning to feel.
As I went on to explain in my comment, which for some reason you felt the need to just selectively quote and then reframe in some completely bullshit way.
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Oh, so now it’s “get the fuck over it”? Both sides are totally the same!
I don’t think so, bebe. You motherfuckers will NEVER be permitted to live this down. This is YOUR fault. We will make you choke on it.
Not even fucking remotely what I said.