• argv_minus_one@beehaw.org
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      1 year ago

      Without government, who’s going to stop armed gangs from killing you and taking all of your property?

      • krimsonbun@lemmy.ml
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        1 year ago

        You seem to be under the belief that human beings are incapable of managing themselves and we need hirearchies that “know better” to rule over us

        • argv_minus_one@beehaw.org
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          1 year ago

          No, I’m under the belief that there are groups of bad people that the rest of us need protection from.

          I’m also under the belief that I live in a democracy, in which we the people choose our leaders. If the government does something bad, it’s because we put someone bad into power. The blame lies with us, not some distant, faceless, unelected hierarchy.

          Don’t believe me? Listen to Republican rhetoric some time. Decode the dog whistles. You’ll find that they’ve been doing precisely what they’ve been saying they’d do: ban abortion, make life hell for immigrants, give money to the rich, dismantle democracy, and so on. None of their actions are surprising. There is no deep state conspiracy here, just politicians doing what they were elected to do.

          • krimsonbun@lemmy.ml
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            1 year ago

            First of all, protection from bad groups is very important. But I don’t believe it should be provided to us by people that would do anything to harm you as long as it’s profitable and they can get away with it (that’s also inherently a bad group)

            If you were under a democracy basic human rights like the freedom of movement, housing, healthcare and autonomy of one’s body would never be QUESTIONED. Even assuming you democratically elected the republican party so they could do that (the americans elected the democrats in 2020, in case you’ve forgotten) it’s inherently undemocratic to take away your human rights, even if it was voted on.

            If you were under a democracy the policies that the government approves wouldn’t be the ones lobbied by the rich. That’s what we call “corruption”

            Also, it’s funny you mention abortion, considering it was the supreme court that overturned Roe v Wade. I’m not sure about you but the supreme court doesn’t look like the most democratic institution to me.

            • argv_minus_one@beehaw.org
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              1 year ago

              First of all, protection from bad groups is very important. But I don’t believe it should be provided to us by people that would do anything to harm you as long as it’s profitable and they can get away with it (that’s also inherently a bad group)

              Then who will protect us? Who, but the government, can hope to have more manpower and firepower than organized crime?

              If you were under a democracy basic human rights like the freedom of movement, housing, healthcare and autonomy of one’s body would never be QUESTIONED. Even assuming you democratically elected the republican party so they could do that (the americans elected the democrats in 2020, in case you’ve forgotten) it’s inherently undemocratic to take away your human rights, even if it was voted on.

              That’s a bit of a paradox of democracy, isn’t it? Does democracy give the people the power to vote away their power to vote? You would say no, but then does that not imply there is some greater power than the will of the people? For there to be a greater power than the will of the people doesn’t sound very democratic.

              If you were under a democracy the policies that the government approves wouldn’t be the ones lobbied by the rich. That’s what we call “corruption”

              You forget, they do so with the tacit approval of the voters who keep voting for them after they do so. Members of Congress who sell America out to the highest bidder often do so for decades, not just one term.

              Also, it’s funny you mention abortion, considering it was the supreme court that overturned Roe v Wade. I’m not sure about you but the supreme court doesn’t look like the most democratic institution to me.

              It is also the Supreme Court that instituted the right to abortion in the first place. Roe v. Wade is the name of a Supreme Court case.

              Congress should have codified the right to an abortion, and would have if not for people electing enough Republicans and DINOs to block such a bill.

              • krimsonbun@lemmy.ml
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                1 year ago

                In the USA (and most places, honestly) all your options are lobbied by rich, there is no alternative in your great democracy. It’s rich people that hate gays, women, immigrants and workers or rich people that hate workers. I wouldn’t call that democracy, personally. And I also don’t think that those people lobbied by the rich, people that couldn’t give less of a crap about us, should be the ones in charge of protecting us. There are more people in the world than monsters, there is more love in the world than hate. Humanity loves the earth and everyone on it, we have the power to create a society based on love and respect we have for eachother. A better world is possible, don’t let these inhumane beings let you believe otherwise.

                As you said, you could call my definiton of democracy a paradox, that is a valid argument. But I’d like to say that’s slightly more democratic than having rich people run around and do whatever they want with the fruits of OUR labour, destroying the planet for fun and the endless accumulation of fake tokens to the point where a human can not even comprehend that big of a number, and then blaming US for the state the planet is in.

                Society has existed before the state and will exist after the state.

                • argv_minus_one@beehaw.org
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                  1 year ago

                  In the USA (and most places, honestly) all your options are lobbied by rich, there is no alternative in your great democracy.

                  Spare me this nonsense. Only one party is in favor of outlawing abortion, not both.

                  There are more people in the world than monsters, there is more love in the world than hate.

                  Doubtful. Very doubtful, given how many Americans don’t vote Democratic.

                  A better world is possible, don’t let these inhumane beings let you believe otherwise.

                  This from the one trying to help the Republicans turn America into a brutal theocracy by discouraging people from voting Democratic.

                  Society has existed before the state and will exist after the state.

                  History does not support this claim. Every society has had leadership of some kind. I’m aware of exactly zero libertarian utopias.

      • krimsonbun@lemmy.ml
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        1 year ago

        well the government is doing a pretty bad job at that considering it is run by the rich and poweful

      • krimsonbun@lemmy.ml
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        1 year ago

        Anarkiddies have and are fighting on the frontlines. Only issue is, it’s hard to remain anarchist when the people you’ve allied with are trying to execute you (26 July movement, for example)

          • krimsonbun@lemmy.ml
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            1 year ago

            There are examples of anarchists fighting by themselves, most notably the Free Territory of Ukraine (for the most part, though it did fight alongside the red army on multiple occasions) there’s also the AANES which isn’t inherently anarchist but does have a lot of it’s libertarian characteristics, there’s the zapatistas which you could argue that they are anarchists and I’d say they’re definitely fighting alone, and of course Revolutionary Catalonia, which created a (functional?) society while still facing the much stronger fascists to the west and a lot of internal repercussion from republicans/marxists.

            This is also ignoring the fact that most anarchists would rather fight for a lesser evil when possible instead of sitting around doing nothing.