- cross-posted to:
- world@lemmy.world
- cross-posted to:
- world@lemmy.world
The International Fencing Federation (FIE) also said it was reinstating Kharlan, allowing her to take part in the team competition at the world championships in Milan.
Emmanuel Katsiadakis, the Greek president of the FIE, said the decision had been taken “after consultation with the International Olympic Committee”.
Kharlan, the first fencer to face a Russian or Belarusian since the former’s invasion of Ukraine, won 15-7 against Russia’s Anna Smirnova on Thursday.
The 32-year-old four-time Olympic medallist refused Smirnova’s handshake afterwards, instead offering her sabre to tap blades, but FIE rules state that the two fencers must shake hands.
Smirnova staged a 45-minute protest and refused to leave the competition strip.
Kharlan was disqualified, claiming afterwards that Emmanuel Katsiadakis, the Greek president of the FIE, had even assured her that it was “possible” not to shake hands and offer a touch of her blade instead following her victory.
“I thought I had his word, to be safe, but apparently, no,” Kharlan said.
In response to her disqualification, the International Olympic Committee called for Ukrainian athletes to be treated “sensitively”.
Then on Friday, IOC President Thomas Bach, a former Olympic fencer himself, sent Kharlan a letter saying she would be guaranteed a place at next year’s Olympics in Paris regardless of whether she gained the qualification points.
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“Smirnova staged a 45-minute protest and refused to leave the competition strip.”
The Russian fencer is basically a toddler.
To be clear, if she is contesting a ruling by the referee, she is not allowed to leave the piste (strip) until the situation is resolved by the head official(s). As soon as she leaves the piste, she gives up all rights to contest a ruling.
This happened publicly before with Shin A-lam at the 2012 Olympics, where she had to stay on piste for an hour while the officials discussed the ruling.
So to be clear, she is throwing a tantrum because the Ukrainian contestant didn’t want to shake hands with a citizen of the country that has been killing her people?
Yes. I think this is less a tantrum, and more of a “fuck you” from Smirnova to Kharlan, but your interpretation is fine.
The rules state that the competitors must shake hands at the end of a bout, and that the penalty for refusing to shake hands is a black card. At the beginning of the pandemic, this rule was suspended, and was replaced with saluting and tapping blades. It is not clear whether the handshake rule is back in effect at the international level (which in itself is a huge problem - if athletes can’t look up the rules, it’s hard to follow them).
As an online observer, these are the facts I was able to gather. At the end of this bout, Kharlan offered her blade for the blade tap, and instead of reciprocating, Smirnova offered her hand for a handshake. Kharlan then left the piste without tapping blades or shaking hands, and Smirnova launched her complaint which (per the rules) required her to remain on piste until the issue was resolved. The officials decided the complaint was legitimate, and black carded Kharlan.
All that follows is my own speculation. Kharlan offered the blade tap but was refused. Depending on whether the handshake rule is officially reinstated (and it seems that many athletes at this particular competition were just tapping blades without a handshake) she may have been able to lodge her own complaint that Smirnova was unwilling to tap blades. They could have just had an old fashioned stand-off, with one fencer extending their blade for the tap and the other extending their hand for the handshake, neither willing to compromise, and it would (probably) have resulted in the referee clarifying the rules without penalty to either fencer. But because Kharlan left the piste without tapping blades and without shaking hands, it left an opening for Smirnova to exploit.
I do wish that the FIE would go on record saying whether the handshake rule is fully back in effect. I’m actually a fan of tapping blades, because too many fencers show up to tournaments sick, and shaking hands with everyone is a good way to spread disease. Even beyond that, people often have very sweaty hands, and it’s just kinda gross.
there was a coup in 2014 that overthrew the government in ukraine and installed a pro western president in ukraine. but on the sources you read it’s refered to as a revolution, not a coup. the people of ukraine voted in yanokovych. before him was kuchma and yushenko and kravchuk. donbas is a lot different than galacia
I’m surprised she didn’t declare that Kharlan’s medals belong to Russia.
I’m surprised Russia isn’t complaining that Ukraine, which they believe should be part of Russia, isn’t arguing Ukraine isn’t a country and shouldn’t compete.
Why wouldn’t she shake hands? Just bigotry?
Oh I dunno, let’s have your country invaded, your children slaughtered in their schools, your women and children raped, your prisoners of war tortured and executed, your monuments and cultural touchstones destroyed, your homes and apartments bombed indiscriminately until several of your cities are completely flattened.
Then let’s have you compete with a person who is representing the invaders. Wearing their flag, singing their anthem. And then you’re expected to shake their hand?
We’ll see if you can’t sympathize then.
The US, the UK, most of western Europe have done far worse to countries across the globe and presumably they have their hands shaken all the time at these events. This girl is not responsible for America’s latest war.
Maybe if they get their hands shaken all the time at these events, it means they haven’t done “far worse”…
How many innocent people do you think the US has killed in the past 20 years? Just take a guess, in millions, obviously.
Far more than it should be.
Why does this matter to the issue at hand? The issue here is with Russia and Ukraine. Why are you mudding the waters with a new topic? USA bad doesn’t mean people can’t think Russia bad.
I was asking the guy who thought that the west hadn’t done far worse.
Oh, because someone did something worse, that makes this okay? Grow up, or go tilt at windmills.
Tu Quoque.
Their point is the double standard. Either apply it consistently or not at all. If athletes are representing their country in all aspects when competing internationally, all athletes should be held to that standard.
If an athlete refused to shake a USian athletes hand because of the war crimes of their country, including ones ongoing at this very moment, you would be on board with it then? There would be precious few handshakes that could be given out on international sporting stages, that is for sure.
No one asked me. No double standard here my friend. I call a military industrial complex what it is AND manage to see the Russian genocide of Ukraine for what IT is.
If you’ve got problems with your opponent tapping a sabre instead of a handshake for the opponent’s press to run through the disinformation mill is more then sufficient.
Please don’t call things you don’t like “genocide”. It’s immature and shows you up to be an unserious drama queen.
Either you have a slanted view of what is happening in Ukraine, or you don’t know what genocide means. I encourage you to look into it in either case.
https://time.com/6262903/russia-ukraine-genocide-war-crimes/
This attitude to a greater extent is what lead to Japanese American children being thrown in concentration camps.
This is a shaken hand when someone is representing a country, not a child trying to live their life free. You’ve built a wonderful strawman.
Do you think athletes literally represent their countries as avatars or something? Representing your country in an athletic competition does not mean agreeing with everything your country does, or even with most things your country does. Look at all the US black athletes in the 1936 Olympics.
In the Olympics, do we not say what “country” won the medals, fly their flag, play their anthem? It’s not my narrative, but the one the Olympics has written.
Okay and if someone shot her at the competition would they be shooting her, or Russia? Her, obviously. Yours is a silly line of argumentation steeped in national symbolism.
You’re attacking me instead of my point. Until you address it I have nothing more to say.
Basically yes.
The generous interpretation is that she was confused by the rules, as during the pandemic there was a suspension of handshakes in competition. I feel that could have been quickly resolved with an apology and a belated handshake though.
Why should she be treated any differently than other athletes? She deliberately broke the rules, got a punishment, threw a fit overthe punishment, and now is getting a special place in the Olympics despite not qualifying for them? That seems kinda ridiculius IMO.
Being forced to shake hands with the representation of the people committing war crimes against your family and nation is an awful standard.
“Okay, we know he raped you, but it’s been 17 months. Just get over it and shake his hand.”
That’s a deranged analogy. Being from a nation doesn’t place the crimes of the government on every citizen. More, the olymics exists to be a place to attempt to step outside conflict, as hard as that might be.
That comparison makes no sense at all. Her opponent didn’t assault her, nor is she responsible for the actions of any of the government involved. She’s an athlete, not a head of state. She wasn’t fencing against Putin.
A more apt comparison would be to refuse to shake hands with anyone from France because you were assaulted by a French person once. You would be widely, and rightfully, decried as racist for such a position.
The rules are set up to present a ladylike/gentlemanly behavior in the face of good sportsmanship. There is nothing ungentlemanly or unladylike in refusing to shake hands when a sword tap will suffice.
There is also nothing unladylike about not wanting to touch the person who represents your rapists. If the athlete representing Russia doesn’t like that treatment, they can choose to participate without representing a nation.
There are simple solutions to all of these problems, but the most important aspect is she had an agreement with the official that a sword tap would be appropriate and acceptable beforehand. Downvotes mean nothing without a response. I can sign up for 10 accounts and manipulate the votes too!
The boyfriend of the russian fencer is currently in ukraine committing war crimes. She is a supporter of that genocide. Would you expect a jewish fencer during WW2 to shake hands with a fencer whose husband is in the SS?
The athlete in question is not their government, cannot prevent their government from doing the war, and is not responsible for any of the crimes of her government. Changing the rules for one athlete because she doesn’t like her opponent is ridiculous. This rule has been on the book for decades. People from countries in much more bitter wars have shaken hands.
And also the other fencer literally did not rape her, this situation isn’t even remotely comparable to what you just said. That’s an utterly ridiculous comparison. You’re making it out as though this one athlete is personally responsible for everything Russia has done in the last 2 years and should be treated as such.
She competes for Russia, represents Russia at this event and thus has to live with meeting the same response as her country does
That athlete represents the government in an official capacity at a world event. You’re making it out like they somehow don’t represent Russia.
I can see by your downvote but failure to reply that you believe the athlete does not represent Russia. Then why have country distinctions at all?
That’s easy to say thousands of kilometers removed from the atrocities. There’s a high likelihood that someone from her family or friends was killed, raped, or deported by someone from that other athelete’s friends or family. Whether or not you agree with the IOC ruling, show some fucking compassion for the athlete.
Furthermore let’s not ignore the fact that the Olympics have ALWAYS been politicized, and these things fucking matter. There are entire paragraphs on Jesse Owen’s wikipedia speculating on whether or not he shook Hitler’s hand, because Hitler snubbed the medal presentations because he was pissed that “coloured people” were winning.
Even taking a completely cynical look at things, the optics are extremely important, and all of this, from both atheltes’ behavior to the IOC’s reactions, are ALL political statements to a degree or another, and everyone imvolved is a grown-ass adults who didn’t have to hide behind a rulebook if they didn’t want to.
this is a continuation of the coup that took place in 2014 in Ukraine. Donbas is different than Galacia. IMO I would split Ukraine into 2 countries. maybe it’s similar to North and South in USA
Ahhh yes! The Wagner “coup” preceded by a military buildup on the Russian side! Didn’t something similar happen in Russia recently? If memory serves, the leader of both coups is still alive and still a person that even Putin can’t just kill off. What was his name? Yevgeny Prigozhin, you say? Tell us more about the coup!
And now Ukraine is hitting downtown Moscow with drones. That coup?
Edit: You see, the trolls don’t know how to respond when they’re not allowed to talk about a subject that could hurt the viewpoint of Russian/Chinese propaganda. Next up: labor death camps! How’s that diplomat from China that went missing? Is Navalny in good health?
instead of being a proxy to fight russia for usa, ukraine should come to an agreeement with russia and end the war, likely giving up some territory. after that either half can do as the please, join nato etc.
So what you’re saying is like: China annexes all of Russia, bombs the hell out of it, and then says “why won’t they just agree to stop fighting? We’re doing this for you! We raped your citizens and deported your children because your leaders are (ironically) Jewish Nazis!”
Why should any sovereign nation give up land to invaders, especially when they’re in the middle of an offensive campaign? The US News is reporting Ukraine is about to start an offensive in Crimea, so why on earth would they stop to negotiate with a bully who is currently getting their asses charred?
When you’re winning at LoL or Fortnite, do you suddenly go to your opponent and say “Hey man! We should stop fighting, and share this victory! I don’t like that I’m currently winning! Here’s half my inventory and points. Enjoy!”
Your username kinda gives you away. You should consider using one of your alts
Why should any sovereign nation give up land to invaders
i get it, i don’t want ukraine to give up land. occupations are wrong. a lot of people don’t agree with the coup in 2014 though, especially in donbas. russia doesn’t want nato expansion after ussr collapse and that’s exactly what happend. i understand russias perspective too.
What is Russia’s perspective? They invaded, and now they’re upset they could lose the land they stole in 2014. They wanted a warm water port. They got it. But then they wanted all of the farm land in Ukraine, so they invaded again. Now they have no hope of gaining the farmland, and they may never get full use of the warm water port in Crimea. There is zero chance the Ukrainian people stop harassing Crimea.
NATO expanded as a result of the 2014 invasion (2017, 2020, 2023), so that member nations can maintain their ancestral lands and have no fear of being invaded by… You guessed it: Russia
It is really insensitive and anti-feminist to make rape comparisons because you can’t find less charged rhetoric to use. Most women experience sexual violence and something like 1/6 of of all women have ptsd on that account, it is very inconsiderate.
Considering how many Ukranian women and children are being literally raped by the Russian invaders, I’d say the comparison is plenty apt!
Your concern trolling is the thing that’s insensitive and inconsiderate.
And that has to do with this one woman competitor how? Did she sign off on the invasion?
No?
Then don’t compare her being there to a rapist.
